Scope/Rhode in a crowded anchorage

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by RichandHelen

A CQR is so worthless that you are better off to take an equivalent weight in chain and use that - no anchor. Give up food for a while if you must and buy a Rochna.

Excessive hyperbole is not a convincing argument. You sound kinda silly...

Jim

[Deltasailor]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Excessive hyperbole is not a convincing argument. You sound kinda silly...

Jim

I'm in the Anti CQR camp. Had one for years and dragged numerous times.
In Greece tried to drop in a sandy bit and not the kelp. Forget them in Scotland, I'd rather pick up a mooring, though not recommended.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Deltasailor

I'm in the Anti CQR camp. Had one for years and dragged numerous times.
In Greece tried to drop in a sandy bit and not the kelp. Forget them in Scotland, I'd rather pick up a mooring, though not recommended.

Sure, mate, but what was stated is that adding a few pounds of chain and discarding the CQR is better than the CQR. I disagree!

We too were users of CQRs when we started cruising. Our experience was that they were sometimes hard to get set, but once set, they held reasonably well. Adding 45 lbs of chain (around 25 feet) and removing the anchor would not have equaled that performance.

Of course I agree that modern anchors are considerably better than the venerable plough, but literally thousands of cruisers did and are today using ploughs of various designs and not continuously dragging.

So, I stand firm that the post in question was hyperbole. If not, it demonstrated ignorance.

Jim

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Sure, mate, but ... I stand firm that the post in question was hyperbole...
Jim

Aw, c'mon Jim - exaggeration to make a point perhaps?

Which is the least reliable bower anchor, in your opinion? (I'm assuming danforths and Fortress are used mainly as kedges.) Surely it has to be the old plough? (Not to be confused with that new-gen 'Sarca Excel' of course - can't wait to get my hands on one of them!)

[keepondancin]

I have to laugh about all the CQR doomsday statements. Used them during my 10 years in the Caribbean, and all the east coast cruising. I now spend several weeks each summer in Block Island. Any body who has actually cruised and says they never dragged is a retired used car salesman. I have all chain which really is key to the safest anchoring, reducing the catenary of the road. In Block Island, I have had to let the buoyancy of the boat break my anchor free on numerous occasions. In the Caribbean, when I would dive on the anchor, most of the time it was completely buried, it plowed it's way down The two worst dragging incidents I experienced was one where two other boats dragged down on me, and I went about 50 feet. The second was in Boqueron when I returned from town, and the boat was a mere speck on the horizon.(slight exaggeration). I had been anchored for several days with no problem. When I upped anchor, there was a rag mop stuck on the anchor. CQR's have been around for many years, and I don't think there has been a huge number of boats lost because of anchoring with a plow anchor. Technique is equally as important as the selected equipment.

[UNCIVILIZED]

The distilled version of an answer to the OP's question, not yet spoken. Is that in a crowded anchorage, you typically need to use about the same amount of scope that everyone else is using. That way, in theory at least, as the tides or wind shifts, all of the anchored boats will move about the same amount, & in the same direction as one another. Which is where having a bit more chain as part of your rode may help.

Fortunately 1/4" G43 chain isn't overly expensive, nor heavy. Though honestly, every good cruising boat deserves a windlass, if "only" a manual one. As they make anchoring a lot more tolerable, especially if you have to reset your hook a couple of times in order to get it to bite in solidly.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by keepondancin

... Technique is equally as important as the selected equipment.

That's very true, if using a plough. Drop a Rocna (or any new-gen) however, and technique goes out the window - they twist around in the tide and keep on burying deeper and deeper. Breaking them free is the only 'problem' with new-gen anchors. It's chalk and cheese!

[barnakiel]

In crowded places we will use about 1:3. I am most unhappy with this but this is often the best we can get.

One is limited by what others did - and these others may be like 200 boats that came before us.

When I am not happy with the scope or with my neighbours, we leave.

b.

[Seighlor]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

The distilled version of an answer to the OP's question, not yet spoken. Is that in a crowded anchorage, you typically need to use about the same amount of scope that everyone else is using. That way, in theory at least, as the tides or wind shifts, all of the anchored boats will move about the same amount, & in the same direction as one another. Which is where having a bit more chain as part of your rode may help.

That certainly sounds reasonable. But upon entering an anchorage, how does one determine the amount of scope that has been laid out by others?

[Tayana42]

Sail by or row over and ask. It's a good way to get to know your neighbors.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Seighlor

That certainly sounds reasonable. But upon entering an anchorage, how does one determine the amount of scope that has been laid out by others?

Also, some folks buoy their anchors. So you can look at where the float is, where they are, & make an educated guess.
Sometimes too, if the anchorage is truly crowded, the boats wind up anchored in rows. Which gives you a fairly exact gauge as to how much rode they have out.

[estarzinger]

In busy anchorages worldwide 3:1 is pretty much the norm. It is the shortest scope most anchors will reliably hold at. So, if it is a popular busy spot you can pretty safely assume that. Get used to it, size your tackle for it.

You can usually spot those with a bunch of book reading but less practical experience .. . . Laying out two anchors in a V (when everyone else is on one), and/or putting out 7:1 of rope when everyone else is on 3:1 of chain. They usually figure it out after swinging a bit close

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by RichandHelen

A CQR is so worthless that you are better off to take an equivalent weight in chain and use that - no anchor. Give up food for a while if you must and buy a Rochna.

Or you could take that chain and add a really high performance new gen anchor like an Excel or a Spade.

[barnakiel]

An interesting beast is a Danforth. We have a copy.

It will not set at short scope. But if you set it at long scope, you will find you can then shorter the scope to 3:1 easily and the anchor will not release.

I have also used a big light alloy Danforth in emergency. I set it from a dinghy, rowing out, at scope of about 10. Then I slowly pulled on the line (nearly all soft line, only some 8ft of wire strop just before the anchor) and it set (sic!). It held a huge steel boat off another small and plastick one that got too close in a wind shift.

So, properly used, light Danforth anchors can be a hell of a device to have around.

Our other anchor is a Bruce.

Cheers,
b.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...So, properly used, light Danforth anchors can be a hell of a device to have around...

Yes, I have a Fortress rigged with mainly rope for the same purpose, as a kedge. Great holding power - just never allowed to swing with the tide.

(Why are anchors such a hot topic anyway? Note to self: try to avoid comment in future)