Scope/Rhode in a crowded anchorage

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Excessive hyperbole is not a convincing argument. You sound kinda silly...

Jim

[rwidman]

Only one person mentioned it: You should use the same scope as others in the anchorage. In many cases you can just look at the angle from the bow to the water to get an idea.

There is always much argument about the type or brand of anchors. In my experience, anchoring a boat is as much of an art as it is a science. Technique matters more than brand or style.

And if you have an "old style" anchor but it never fails you, there's no good reason to go out and spend $400 on the latest "modern" anchor. If your boat is in the same place in the morning as it was last night, you can't improve on that.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by rwidman

... If your boat is in the same place in the morning as it was last night, you can't improve on that.

I can't help myself - must disagree with that. Wait till that 45 knot howler goes through with a 180 degree wind-shift. If you don't have two anchors out (technique) or else a new generation anchor that will spin around without dragging, then watch out. Anchoring a hundred times without dragging is not a good indicator of technique or equipment. Just look at Steve's (Panope) video compilation and then say I'm wrong.

[Jaqun]

Thanks. I had stepped away from this thread while I was traveling and found allot of great information when I got back. Thank you all for your help. Heading to block next week. hope to find a mooring for now. Plan to upgrade anchor in the spring. Might add some more chain but it is already heavy to lift.
Thank you all!

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

I can't help myself - must disagree with that. Wait till that 45 knot howler goes through with a 180 degree wind-shift. If you don't have two anchors out (technique) or else a new generation anchor that will spin around without dragging, then watch out. Anchoring a hundred times without dragging is not a good indicator of technique or equipment. Just look at Steve's (Panope) video compilation and then say I'm wrong.

I will admit that I'm wrong the first time my claw anchor fails me. Until then, I will give the same advice. If your current anchor holds you, you don't need a more expensive one.

A "new generation" anchor may hold against a greater force than a traditional anchor but again, if you don't need that extra holding, it's a waste of money.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I will admit that I'm wrong the first time my claw anchor fails me. Until then, I will give the same advice. If your current anchor holds you, you don't need a more expensive one...

So... you'll wait until after your current anchor has dragged ashore before you'll upgrade? Or... do you never foresee anchoring in very strong winds? Either way, seems like risky advice to pass on to others.

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by RichandHelen

A CQR is so worthless that you are better off to take an equivalent weight in chain and use that - no anchor. Give up food for a while if you must and buy a Rochna.

Bold statement !!! I have the same CQR and have never dragged.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by mottseng

... I have the same CQR and have never dragged.

The old saying is there are two types of yachtsmen - those who have been aground, and those who have never left the dock. Same can be said about those who have never dragged an anchor.

When you have dragged a Rocna in heavy mud, then you'll know you have been through some serious strife. When you have dragged three anchors all at once, then you may feel qualified to comment on dragging anchors. Until then, it sounds a bit like the old saying...

[barnakiel]

I think most times we witnessed anchoring fails were with boats using odd or ridiculously small anchors or crews without basic anchoring skills (some charter boats, some people very new to cruising, etc.).

As for setting a second anchor in a crowded anchorage, I never do it. But I did leave a second anchor on the bottom some distance behind our boat with plenty of scope flaked on the deck and the water end stopped by placing some of the line under the coil. This way, I believe, should a dramatic shift occur, the line may play out, some 100 ft of it, and at this point the second anchor may start to dig in. This should cause minimal if any trouble to our neighbours.

What works in some conditions (trade winds anchorages where dramatic wind shifts are very rare) may be a bad advice in other situations (e.g. very tidal, very shifty, etc.). So to say every situation needs a fresh judgement.

On the whole, though, I am in the school of in Rome do as Rome does. And if you are unhappy with the scope or with your neighbours, simply leave and find a different spot / location.

Cheers,
b.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

So... you'll wait until after your current anchor has dragged ashore before you'll upgrade? Or... do you never foresee anchoring in very strong winds? Either way, seems like risky advice to pass on to others.

Yep. If it's not broken, why fix it? People can take my advice or leave it, just like they can yours.

BTW: I have an anchor drag alarm so if my anchor drags, I'll take appropriate action. Then I'll decide if I need a different "miracle" anchor.

Speaking of that "miracle" anchor, it seems people on boating forums haven't yet agreed on which is the best one.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

The old saying is there are two types of yachtsmen - those who have been aground, and those who have never left the dock. Same can be said about those who have never dragged an anchor.

When you have dragged a Rocna in heavy mud, then you'll know you have been through some serious strife. When you have dragged three anchors all at once, then you may feel qualified to comment on dragging anchors. Until then, it sounds a bit like the old saying...

Agree !

In thousands of nights at anchor I've dragged twice, once in 65knot winds with three anchors out and once in a narrow creek with tidal change and two anchors out. I've only had the 55lb. Rocna (all chain) for a year but was very pleased with it between Toronto and Bahamas this past winter. Best sleeps I've had on the hook in years. Slept like a baby through Hermine in the lower Hudson and through Matthew in Cape May.

[barnakiel]

My very wild speculation re CQR is that it may count if you have an original / copy / what size / and skills.

I say this as we had a copy and it was horrible. But I know some long term sailing people who had an original (and bigger) CQR and they swore by it.

So perhaps an original and heavy CQR plus relevant technique are the solution.

We had a Bruce copy on our rtw and now we have a Bruce original (looks identical, just 50% bigger) and both performed great in hundreds of anchorages (ban weed). Now if you look at manufacturers' comparative tests, Bruce fares poorly. If you look at independent tests they fare indifferently.

So, where is the truth?

To me, if the anchor you have held fine at varied scopes in varied anchoring scenarios, it does not matter what label or style it is. Keep it.

Cheers,
b.

[Fortress]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

When you have dragged a Rocna in heavy mud, then you'll know you have been through some serious strife.

We dragged a Rocna repeatedly in soft mud during 8 full days of pulling anchors in the Chesapeake Bay. We suspected that if the anchor landed on its side or upside down, then it would simply sink into the bottom and stay in that position as it was being slowly pulled along through the soft mud.

Apparently, a roll bar anchor needs the soil to be somewhat hard in order to roll over, so to speak, and position the fluke downward into the bottom.

Other new and old generation / fixed-fluke anchors had similar issues. Here's a link to the complete story with articles, comments, and videos if you have an interest:

Chesapeake Bay Anchor Test - The World's Best Anchors!

Safe anchoring,
Brian

[mottseng]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Yep. If it's not broken, why fix it? People can take my advice or leave it, just like they can yours.

BTW: I have an anchor drag alarm so if my anchor drags, I'll take appropriate action. Then I'll decide if I need a different "miracle" anchor.

Speaking of that "miracle" anchor, it seems people on boating forums haven't yet agreed on which is the best one.

I agree and support this statement - BTW: I have an anchor drag alarm so if my anchor drags, I'll take appropriate action. Then I'll decide if I need a different "miracle" anchor.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Jaqun

............Problem is in a place like block island salt pond that comes out to approx 30ft depth+3ft tide+4=37 x 5:1 scope = 185ft of rode. 7:1 Scope comes to 259 ft. This seems really long to me. Am I calculating wrong? Is this too much scope for a crowded place? What kind of scope do others put out. Very interested in learning
Thanks

One way to avoid having to worry about how much scope to have out is to be one of the first boats in the anchorage. This makes it the other boater's responsibility to avoid swinging into you, not the other way around. Pick a spot and set out what you think is appropriate and safe. Your primary responsibility is for the safety of your boat and crew or guests.

Another important thing is learning how to set anchor for the best holding. How often do you see someone just drop their anchor and walk back and open a beer? Or with smaller boats just toss the anchor overboard. Your anchor will be much more secure if you learn to back down on it under power. Knowing that your anchor is securely set will let you use less scope if necessary.