Sea Anchors and Drogues

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by thinwater

a. Have you ever steered with drogues, properly rigged to outboard turning blocks? I can sail most courses, even to windward. It is a myth that they only slow or provide very limited steerage. Any direction with a functioning engine.

But you have a catamaran, right? Have you had the same luck with a mono?

[UNCIVILIZED]

On the oil question in a serious storm, as in survival level or close there to. Odds are folks wouldn't be too choosy about what they used, at least not if they had any sense. Since if the boat goes down, or spills any significant amount of fuel or oil into their bilges, the stuff will wind up in the ocean anyway, so why not try it?

Also consider all of the other stupid things people do when scared. Even setting off EPIRBs when they know that neither they nor the boat's in any true danger, but they're tired & have bitten off more than they figured is all. Thus putting everyone involved into mortal danger, as well as creating an environmental issue via their vessel after they're plucked off.

Think about it all for a minute.

[Snowpetrel]

Just looked oil up on my old copy of van dorns oceanography and seamanship. He has a small chapter onthe science of oil on water. Actually it seems like laundry detergent works, and the best is a stuff called dodecanols, heavy oils are not very effective.

The effects are on small waves, under 5 feet, but it reduces spray as well. It doesnt seem to reduce the incidence of the larger breaking waves. He suggested it was usefull for MOB and small boat work, but for the survival of small yachts in big seas it was a waste of time and would just make a mess.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

Just looked oil up on my old copy of van dorns oceanography and seamanship. He has a small chapter onthe science of oil on water. Actually it seems like laundry detergent works, and the best is a stuff called dodecanols, heavy oils are not very effective.

The effects are on small waves, under 5 feet, but it reduces spray as well. It doesnt seem to reduce the incidence of the larger breaking waves. He suggested it was usefull for MOB and small boat work, but for the survival of small yachts in big seas it was a waste of time and would just make a mess.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Its not to calm the seas, its to minimize breaking waves. And yes, you want oil that will spread and not clump. No fuel oils. Anyways, for those who want to find out first hand, take some fish oil, and when you are in steep, breaking seas, try some down the head(about a cup every half hour at most. Assuming you are hoved to.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

On the oil question in a serious storm, as in survival level or close there to. Odds are folks wouldn't be too choosy about what they used, at least not if they had any sense. Since if the boat goes down, or spills any significant amount of fuel or oil into their bilges, the stuff will wind up in the ocean anyway, so why not try it?

Also consider all of the other stupid things people do when scared. Even setting off EPIRBs when they know that neither they nor the boat's in any true danger, but they're tired & have bitten off more than they figured is all. Thus putting everyone involved into mortal danger, as well as creating an environmental issue via their vessel after they're plucked off.

Think about it all for a minute.

I presume folks on this forum want to plan ahead and not rely on panic reactions. But if panic is your solution, then basically go cruising with no preparations. Chances are you will be ok. The Hiscocks sailed for over 60 years and confessed they only encountered one whole gale condition at sea.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

Its not to calm the seas, its to minimize breaking waves. And yes, you want oil that will spread and not clump. No fuel oils. Anyways, for those who want to find out first hand, take some fish oil, and when you are in steep, breaking seas, try some down the head(about a cup every half hour at most. Assuming you are hoved to.

It only effects the small breaking waves. The bigger dangerous ones still break through the slick as if it wasn't there, according to the experiments done by Van dorn.

So yes it does minimise the number of breaking waves, just unfortunately not the big ones.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

I presume folks on this forum want to plan ahead and not rely on panic reactions. But if panic is your solution, then basically go cruising with no preparations. Chances are you will be ok. The Hiscocks sailed for over 60 years and confessed they only encountered one whole gale condition at sea.

Thats because they didn't overestimate the windspeeds like many yachties. They encountered plenty of normal gales and lots of yachtsmans gales.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Snowpetrel

It only effects the small breaking waves. The bigger dangerous ones still break through the slick as if it wasn't there, according to the experiments done by Van dorn.

So yes it does minimise the number of breaking waves, just unfortunately not the big ones.

The Navy found it useful in stormy seas. Perhaps this article might educate you: Pouring Oil on ‘Troubled Waters’ | Deep Sea News

[a64pilot]

I think oil was used to try to save the Mulberry harbors in WWII as well, I don't know how effective it was, but always though it took quite a bit of oil to do any real good, more than a boat like mine is likely to carry, even if I used my fuel too.

[Snowpetrel]

Originally Posted by reed1v

The Navy found it useful in stormy seas. Perhaps this article might educate you: Pouring Oil on ‘Troubled Waters’ | Deep Sea News

Thanks. I'll stick with Van Dorns scientific studies, where he concludes that it doesn't have any effect any breaker over 5 feet or so.

[barnakiel]

It may be difficult to carry enough oil to get any result.

Imagine working on the deck, should any of this oil get onto it ...

IMHO it is a no no in a small sailing pleasure craft.

b.

[undercutter]

Has anybody used this sea anchor and or the sea claw drogue by Coppins of New Zealand. Para Sea Anchor by Coppins, The Toughest Para Sea Anchors

I thought it might be prudent to purchase the sea claw prior to our departure to NZ in December although I hope that the weather should be settled by then. As we planned to head into the Pacific in May next year we thought about buying the sea anchor once we hit NZ.

Some might think the sea anchor a waste on our 34 tonne CT 56 and obviously there are opinions that it would make matters worse. Not a lot of storm experience as the worst we have hit was coming into Darwin with 40kts and 5-6m seas where we just kept moving.

Funny thing is when we lost the lift pump in that blow we ended up laying ahull beam on to the seas for an hour or more while I changed the pump and it was the most comfortable ride. Always thought that if we ever did encounter anything worse, that this would be the way to ride it out while comfortably sheltered below. We left quits a slick on the lee side beam and the waves would break well before hitting the boat. Would this situation change in higher seas or bigger winds?

Thanks,

[fuentes]

I once again recommend reading about "Jordan Series Drogue" on the internet. This Aeronautical Engineer with Boing plus Seattle Coast guard develope this concept. After reading about this, I proceeded to build my own. Ann Cate suggested using (Hurculon ?)for the cone material. All the information on how to build it is there, plus number of cones according to weight of boat. He donated his work to the sailing community. It is worth the time to consider it.