Spade 99lb vs 121lb on 25 ton Tayana 52

[MyersVF]

Hey Gang-

First post here. Hoping to get some opinions on anchor size for our Tayana 52 to replace our 75lb CQR. She weighed 25 tons at last haul out. Sold on the Spade design, but looking mainly for what the draw backs would be to go with a monster 121lb in lieu of the lighter 99lb.

We are full time live aboards - primarily at anchor. Currently in Grenada and heading to Polynesia next spring. We do leave our boat for a few days here and there to explore in island.

We will keep the old CQR as a backup and for kedging but there will be no other anchors on board.

Thanks for any input.

-Myers

[zboss]

I use a 55 pound spade and wish I had a 70+ on our boat which is about 1/2 your weight. So I personally see no problem with the 121 if it will fit on your bow. Of course, the downside is having 121 pounds on the pointy end but I have to wonder if 22 pounds would make that much difference since you could just remove 15 feet of chain. I would rather have the weight in the anchor than have an extra 15 feet of chain.

[Dockhead]

I went from a 55kg (121 pound) Rocna to a 45kg (99 pound) spade on my Moody 54. She is a bit lighter than your boat (about 20 metric tonnes light ship) but I don't think that will make a big difference in anchor choice -- windage will be similar.

I found the jumbo Rocna to be difficult to handle. It was a strain for my windlass (Lewmar Ocean 3), and when it started swinging as I brought it into the bow roller, it was too much kinetic energy to do anything with. It wanted to turn upside down and it could be hard to get it into the bow roller.

So I went down a size when I replaced it with a Spade. I have never felt it was too small, but neither have I anchored in any extreme conditions. It sets much better than the bigger Rocna did.

Whether the 55kg Spade would be easier to handle than the 55kg Rocna was -- I don't know. Probably the swinging and so forth would be less of a problem because the Spade is much better balanced (because of the lead ballast).

Whether it's worth it in your case is hard to say. You might have to try it -- and sell it on if it's not comfortable.

[OrinocoFlo]

99lb Ultra anchor holding a 25 ton Oyster in difficult conditions. 12ft depth, hard pack bottom. The 90ft Swan with professional crew next door dragged and went onto the rocks. My husband Ken who recorded this thinks a 45kg Spade or Ultra anchor will be fine for your boat; he'd just returned to the boat after dropping me off at the airport and encountered these conditions.

Pam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lyypubKVrU

[Dean Sutherland]

We have a 66,000 pound, 52’ Trawler (power boat). We use a 99 lb Spade as the primary anchor—never had to use another. Just finished 6,000nm in Mexico and US west coast. Heading out for Alaska and Mexico again the end of April. Been in 40+\- knot winds at anchor—never an issue. It always holds and pulls up real estate. And we have a lot more “windage” and weight than you. Go with the 99 lb. As mentioned earlier—too big can be an issue.

[yachtgemini]

I have a Tayana 47 and our design is near identical. As a concession to age and having the windlass fail I made the decision to reduce anchor size from 80 lb to 60lb. It is a lot easier to handle and I know that next time we have a windlass fail I can get it up.

The anchors are the same design.

The big surprise is how little difference the change has made in holding.

If conditions are severe I have a massive anchor to deploy but so far it keeps sitting in the bilge.

Ross

[S/V Alchemy]

15 ton (well, currently 29,500 pounds in the slings) 12 metre steel cutter here. I've gone to a 30 kilo SPADE. It's about "one and half steps" bigger than SPADE specifies for my boat. I think you need not address with more weight what you can remedy with more scope and good technique in terms of proper catenary, bridle/snubber use and sufficient scope of right-sized and strong grade chain rode (G43 or G70; both are lighter yet have higher working loads than BBB grade). If your windlass is struggling, that itself becomes a hazard as sometimes getting the hook back in ASAP is a factor in safety when the situation goes pear-shaped and the shore is too close.

[SVTwilight]

We have the Tayana 51 FD-12 and it came with the 75 lb cqr.

I opted for the Spade 121 over the 99.

Our Boat has hugely high topsides and presents a large surface area to the wind.

The 121 is a great sleeping pill...

[krafthaus]

The 121# is 2 sizes over what’s recommended for your weight of boat according to the Spade selection chart.
We upgraded from a 44# Delta and have spent the last six months with our Lagoon 420 on a 77# Spade and are very happy with how it holds. Sleep much better too!! It is also 2 sizes over what they recommend for our weight of catamaran.
You should be good with 99# but the 121# can’t hurt. Suggest you check to make sure your windlass is good with the extra weight.
Happy sailing. Cheers.

[Simi 60]

We have 150lb Manson supreme on a high windage 60 ft 65 tonne ex trawler
Manson NZ sized it as an overkill anchor for us after we sent pictures and weight of boat to them.
We live aboard at anchor 365 days a year and have never dragged.
We have been through one 80 knot and several 50 knot storms.

120lb for a comparatively lightweight low windage boat sounds like overkill, but overkill is good.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

. . . .120lb for a comparatively lightweight low windage boat sounds like overkill, but overkill is good.

Overkill is good, until it's not.

Someone said that the bigger the anchor, the better it works disproportionately to the increase in size. I think this is true, and if it is true, then yes, you should try hard to have the biggest anchor which you can handle reasonably and which your windlass can handle.

But if you get beyond that, then it defeats the purpose.

I would for sure prefer to have the 121 pound Spade, but since I couldn't quite handle the 121 pound Rocna I decided to go down a size. But if I were designing this boat from scratch, it would have a much bigger windlass and much bigger bow roller, and then things would be quite different.

I'm sure 121 pounds would be great for the OP -- IF he can handle the anchor. I don't know his boat or his windlass or bow roller, so I have no idea.

But for that size boat, I believe -- and now this is from experience -- that the next size down should work pretty well.

[TheThunderbird]

As to windlass: anchor chain is much more of a trouble weight wise than anchor itself, say 2-3X or more in deep waters

Size: I don't buy into official "recommendations ". My warning is that the more a varied grounds you meet up in your vagaries, the more you live on the hook, the more you get into deep waters (100'), and are a liveboard....

Well, l numbered 3 times "more" and l would scale it up 3X.
current trend calls for more weight on anchor, less on chain, differently from the past.

Btw Manson is not available in Europe, l will opt for a Spade one day.

75#CQR Now (Scottish like my single malt Talisker)

[MyersVF]

Thanks for all the great replies! I went ahead and ordered the 121lb Spade. After reading Allain's book, I have also switched to the part chain/part rode approach, with 150 feet of chain, and 150 feet of rode. I think the weight savings on the chain will allow for the extra anchor weight on the bow, as long as the balance works as Dockhead mentioned. We will be living on the hook for the next 4-5 years during a circumnavigation attempt and won't be carrying an additional "storm" anchor.

My wife is NUTS about the anchor. (The CQR helped instill that fear in her, holds great but tough to set). So currently I dive the anchor every single time we set it: flip the CQR upright, swim back to the boat, back down on it, and then dive it again. Hopefully this makes my life easier and lets her sleep better.... We are only 30 yo and every worldly possession we own is attached to that anchor... Will report back if the Maxwell 2500 or double bow roller can't handle it.

[zboss]

There is no feeling better than sleeping well at night at anchor.

[chris mac]

You will feel a big difference when you drop the Spade. Grabs faster and harder.
This is based on my limited lake sailing, but the difference from old Gen anchors was amazing. Enjoy your new anchor and sleep tight;-)