splicing anchor line to chain without thimble.

[kmacdonald]

You can weave the line thru the chain links for a couple of feet and then put a figure eight in the end of the line. Works great for older line that is hard to splice. Good also if you're in a hurry.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Hmm... I dont care about storage space at all, and think it probably cost more, but, anyway is it somehow better for this type of splice using 10 links of chain? Where did you learn to do this?

BTW: I love the conflicting responses

It is a smoother splice less likely to catch on things and does not rely on the strength of the last link in the chain. I believe it is less prone to chafe but that may just be my imagination. There is also a single link splice for 8 plait which is in the NER guide. I had heard of the multi-link splice a couple of times and found a British web site with step by step instructions. I would think it would work well with a windlass but I presently only use it on a dinghy/kedge anchor so I don't know.



I agree with the posters upthread that for 3-plait an ordinary splice through one link of chain is the best you can do.

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For the turn radius, you're looking at the individual strands, not the whole line as it doesn't go through the link whole. The individual strands in a 5/8 inch 3 strand line should be no bigger than 5/16.

It's clear that you cannot fit 3 half diameter circles inside a full diameter one... but maybe the strands deform a bit? Regardless, they can't all fit in a 5/16 link without overlapping.

[GordMay]

Splicing nylon rode to chain
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...in-165523.html

Splicing Rope to Chain
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ain-40591.html

Anchor chain to rode splice
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ce-205496.html

Splicing 8 brait to chain
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...in-150728.html

8-Strand Rode-to-Chain Splice, How To?
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...to-167905.html

Anchor shackle or direct splice to chain?
➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-238004-3.html

[Benz]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

It's clear that you cannot fit 3 half diameter circles inside a full diameter one... but maybe the strands deform a bit? Regardless, they can't all fit in a 5/16 link without overlapping.

It doesn't matter if they overlap--just pack them in there. I have 3/4" 3-strand spliced to 5/16" chain, and while it looks awkward, it simply doesn't matter if the strands are piled on top of each other. 2 from one direction, 1 from the other, and away you go.
I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Irony Splice, where only two strands go through the chain, and one of them returns to the rope lay while the third strand is unwound therefrom. I haven't had occasion to do one, but in theory it's sound.
The reason the last link rusts is because Nylon absorbs water and then holds it against the chain long after the rest of the chain has dried. I just cut the last link off and re-splice whenever I get worried about it.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Benz

... The reason the last link rusts is because Nylon absorbs water and then holds it against the chain long after the rest of the chain has dried. I just cut the last link off and re-splice whenever I get worried about it.

Good point!

[seandepagnier]

It seems splicing to the last link causes the last link to rust from the nylon holding water there, as well as reduce breaking strength to 80% or perhaps 87% depending on the size of line vs the size of chain used. This minimizes issues with rollers but requires also re-splicing.

Since normal breaking strength is calculated from pulling a piece with 2 eye splices and thimbles (rope breaks somewhere in the middle not the splice), this is a slight decrease in strength perhaps but not significant as it's more likely to fail from chafe. This explains why it works for so many despite obviously creating a weak point, and all of the test samples break right where the strands go around the last link, but not until stretching the metal quite a bit generally.

Still can't find information comparing the irony splice or shovel splice breaking strengths.

[wrwakefield]

We use a forged, galvanized double-clevis to attach the rope rode [warp] to our 5/16" grade 43 chain for our 22 ton [cruising displacement] ketch.



We used to use 1" - 3-strand nylon, and have now switched to 5/8" - 12 plait polyester for the warp. Both splice easily onto the double-clevis sized for 5/16" grade 43 chain [i.e., 1/2" pin diameter.]

The pin in the double-clevis can be replaced if it starts rusting without re-splicing. [Push the old pin out with the new pin so you don't loose the splice...]

The double-clevis readily traverses our windlass gypsy under strain.

This also makes reversing the chain [end-for-end] an easier task as we don't have to re-splice the [rarely if ever used] rope to the new chain end each time.

In case this is of interest.

Cheers! Bill

PS: For more details than you may care to read, see our ground tackle inventory page.

[GordMay]

Rope-to-Chain Splice Test ~ Practical Sailor

Shovel Splice

Wrap seizing around the rope about 24 inches from the end and unlay. Weave the strands through 12-14 links of chain and secure at each link with a binding of whipping twine. The splicing itself is quite simple but our testers could not get it to feed through a windlass. No amount of urging, tapering, or fiddling would convince it to work, and it occasionally snagged on the windlass body.

The simplest to make, this splice also the weakest and the least friendly to windlasses. It simply would not pass through the Lewmar V700 windlass on our test boat. Its also pretty weak, only about 70 percent of the strength of the rope, and we wonder how long the lashings holding it together will last. We suppose it could be used for a rode that was retrieved manually, but even so its a mess, always bringing up mud.

Bottom line: The shovel splice has proponents, and it still appears in some textbooks, but in our view it is not a viable option.

Here ➥ https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...in-splice-test

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

It seems splicing to the last link causes the last link to rust from the nylon holding water there, as well as reduce breaking strength to 80% or perhaps 87% depending on the size of line vs the size of chain used. This minimizes issues with rollers but requires also re-splicing.

Since normal breaking strength is calculated from pulling a piece with 2 eye splices and thimbles (rope breaks somewhere in the middle not the splice), this is a slight decrease in strength perhaps but not significant as it's more likely to fail from chafe. This explains why it works for so many despite obviously creating a weak point, and all of the test samples break right where the strands go around the last link, but not until stretching the metal quite a bit generally.

Still can't find information comparing the irony splice or shovel splice breaking strengths.

I think you hit on the key. It's a theoretical weak point, but in the real world, something else will almost always be more of an issue. You'd also want the sized such that you don't even get near 50% of breaking strength (as the line will wear out quickly if seeing cyclic loads that high such as anchoring in gusty winds with some chop).

The last link of the chain will rust faster than the others with line spliced to it directly, but it's still not going to rust all that fast if the galvanizing is intact and the splice is tight and not moving around a bunch on the link. Typically you'd be at the point of re-splicing the line anyway before it's an issue, so worst case you just cut one link off at re-splice time.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

Thank you for the detailed reply. A few issues I have:

1. the ratio is < 1:1, as I have 5/8 line and 5/16 chain.
2. the last link (as many know) for some reason tends to rust more. I dont know exactly why in this case, just that it does. As it rusts, not only does the turn radius decrease even more, but the rust will cut into the line more. Right now the chain is new.. but just considering it.
3. cannot even really fit all 3 strands through the link of the chain here, so I believe the strength is also reduced more.
4. 88% is still not 100% of the thimble I believe?

Hmm interesting. Some others replied they do use it. Is it really no stronger in all cases? Any idea about actual breaking tests?


Fair enough, but I use lashings to ensure it cant shift around.


Well, I am using 5/8th line (because I got 200ft of it for free a while ago) but also it gives me some safety factor from chafe and UV. I don't really want to give up any more.

I am not going to mod the roller... but yes the end that sticks out of the shackle does catch on the roller if its flipped the wrong way and this is really half the problem. I have seen shackles that don't have this, but
1) how do you get them undone if they are bit rusted?
2) how do you seize them?

Perhaps I should look for a quick link, however it wont go around a thimble for 5/8th line and fit through a 5/16 chain. I guess 2 quick links? I also dont know how you can seize those (I may be a bit obsessed) I like to use crosby shackles which have twice the normal strength, and G4 chain if possible to reduce weight.

The ratio is 1:1, because that is the diameter of a single strand. 5/16, not 5/8". This is an important point.


Yes, the strands fit. Loosen them a little.


Yes, the last link will rust a little more. With a shackle it will wear more. The shackle will rust. Tradeoffs. And you should remove the last few meters of rope every 3-5 years anyway, because of wear. Normal practice either way.


Don't try to reinvent the wheel. The windlass manufacturers have researched this and settled this. Boat US tested it. I've tested it to failure, as well as several other splice types.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

It's clear that you cannot fit 3 half diameter circles inside a full diameter one... but maybe the strands deform a bit? Regardless, they can't all fit in a 5/16 link without overlapping.

Of course they overlap, a lot. That is normal.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

...
Still can't find information comparing the irony splice or shovel splice breaking strengths.

Try Practical Sailor.


https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...in-splice-test


I think this article is outside the paywall. But subscribe.

[Bent Bugle]

+1 for 8 plait, I have this on my mixed rode, not as stiff as 3 plait & splices easily, costs a bit extra but , in my eyes , it's worth it.

[doublewide]

We have used this rode to chain splice for years. It is strong. It feeds over the roller and onto the gypsy smoothly. Don't make it any shorter than recommended. Longer is OK, but probably not stronger.

To Splice 3-Strand Rope to Chain:
1. From the end of the rope count twelve turns down the lay and mark the twelfth.

2. Make a constrictor knot with the waxed sail twine just after the mark and separate the stands up to the constrictor knot

3. Insert the first strand into the first chain link

4. Insert the second strand into the first chain link from the opposite side of the first strand. Draw up the two strands tightly to keep the constrictor knot snugly against the first chain link.

5. Insert the third strand into the second chain link

6. Insert the first strand into the second chain link from the opposite side of the third strand.

7. Insert the second strand into the third chain link.

8. Insert the third strand into the third chain link, from the opposite side of the second strand. Draw each strand up tightly at each pass and continue on the same way until you reach the end of all the strands and finish with a small constrictor knot. Seal the end of each strand with a hot knife, lighter, or torch.