Stern tie spool for 32' pilothouse Pacific Northwest

[foojin]

You've gotten some good advice, though there really are not that many anchorages in the Gulf Islands where stern tying is the only choice.

I sail the Gulf Islands a lot and can't think of the last time I took out my spool to stern tie there, unless it was Pirates Cove, though even there late in the season you can find space to swing on anchor.

It's a different story, of course, on the Sunshine Coast and Desolation Sound.

Jim

Originally Posted by basssears

Have read through what I could find searching the forum, thought I'd poll the assembled wisdom for whether I have a good plan for stern tie.

Back story is heading to the Gulf Islands this fall, looks like there are some spots that might call for stern tying to shore to minimize swinging. Boat is Gulf 32 full keel sailboat, pilothouse, 16,000# displacement, plenty of windage.

Based on what I've read I'm leaning towards getting two 300' spools for 3/8" floating polypropylene line (seems like two spools of 300' would be easier to manage than 1 spool of 600')... this stuff is only rated at 1400# - 1800# breaking strength though... presumably unless a long way away I would be doubling the line through a ring or around a (dead) tree so I'd get double the strength, still only 2400# - 3600# breaking strength, so conservatively 300# - 450# working strength.

Is this strong enough? I'm not going to be using it all that frequently (although Desolation is on the radar in a few years), hence just going ahead and getting 600' when 200'-300' would probably work in the places I've read about so far in the Gulfs).

Also, do most people just use the basic polypropylene rope like this:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/cont...ed-rope-300075

... or do I have to pony up for Samson MFP or something like that (which means probably buying less to start with):
Samson MFP Floatline

Other / better ideas? Should I go up in size?

Thanks in advance,

-- Bass

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by basssears

...I would be doubling the line through a ring or around a (dead) tree so I'd get double the strength...

No, you don't get double the strength. There is only one line going through the ring. That is where it will fail.

3/8" poly line seems very light.

[wrwakefield]

Hi Bass,

Congratulations on breaking loose for some late season sailing.

Regarding shorefasts: We only use them if we have to- especially if you may encounter inclement weather.

As you mention, some of the anchorages in the Gulf Islands may require use of them either due to size or number of boats.

The only time to be concerned about appropriate shorefast strength is if you are going to encounter wind or waves... Finding yourself broadside to 50 knots of wind puts quite a strain on the shorefasts and ground tackle, not to mention the crew- especially if you are in a close quartered situation.

We do try to loop around the base of stout trees when possible so we don't have to go ashore to retrieve. We run the line through tubular webbing or fire hose when we do this. A stop knot in the bitter end of the shorefast line upon retrieval will bring the webbing home.

The rest of the time we throw a wire choker or chain around a boulder, or set a Fortress anchor on shore [if it is a rare sandy beach...]

If you are interested in more details about our approaches to shorefasts, here is a blog post from earlier this year that links back to similar discussions on this forum.

Safe travels.

Cheers! Bill

PS: You will note we standardized on hi-mod line for shorefasts for strength. There are non-marine suppliers that saved us some $ [e.g., Machovec]

[topmast]

Release (or break)the stern line and go back to bunk while the vessel pulls the anchor off into DEEP water. If you get up the coast ,better to be prepared. Anchoring at a river delta takes some thought too. Will require a stern anchor set at high tide or by skiff at lower and main anchor out as far as you have cable for Judging where the edge and the rudder proximity at low tide will be separates the cruisers.

[deblen]

Originally Posted by basssears

Have read through what I could find searching the forum, thought I'd poll the assembled wisdom for whether I have a good plan for stern tie.

Back story is heading to the Gulf Islands this fall, looks like there are some spots that might call for stern tying to shore to minimize swinging. Boat is Gulf 32 full keel sailboat, pilothouse, 16,000# displacement, plenty of windage.

Based on what I've read I'm leaning towards getting two 300' spools for 3/8" floating polypropylene line (seems like two spools of 300' would be easier to manage than 1 spool of 600')... this stuff is only rated at 1400# - 1800# breaking strength though... presumably unless a long way away I would be doubling the line through a ring or around a (dead) tree so I'd get double the strength, still only 2400# - 3600# breaking strength, so conservatively 300# - 450# working strength.

Is this strong enough? I'm not going to be using it all that frequently (although Desolation is on the radar in a few years), hence just going ahead and getting 600' when 200'-300' would probably work in the places I've read about so far in the Gulfs).

Also, do most people just use the basic polypropylene rope like this:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/cont...ed-rope-300075

... or do I have to pony up for Samson MFP or something like that (which means probably buying less to start with):
Samson MFP Floatline

Other / better ideas? Should I go up in size?

Thanks in advance,

-- Bass

Suggest you forget polyprop or polyethelyne.

Look for polysteel 3 strand-much stronger,more UV resistant,more chafe resistant.

A fishery or aquaculture supply house should have it.
It is a blue-green color.

Polysteel Atlantic Ltd.

For your trip,you could put 600ft (100fa. coil) on a garden hose reel or build your own reel with crank handle.

Cheers/Len

[basssears]

Originally Posted by seasick

Sounds to me as though you're over-thinking this a bit.

WHAT? Me overthink? Naaah, can't be... you must have me confused with someone else...

Originally Posted by seasick

One thing I have found useful with stern ties and stern anchors is to tack them at a bow cleat, run it outside everything and then with a separate line tie the stern line down to a stern cleat. This way if you wake in the night with a williwa on your beam quarter you only need release the line on the stern cleat and your vessel will swing parallel to the shore.

Thanks, this is a great tip, I can see how it could really lessen the pressure on your whole rig if you were getting hit broadside.

[Tessellate]

Just finished 3 months cruising north of Seattle - Gulfs, San Juans, Desolation, Broughtons, Queen Charlotte Strait, Sunshine Coast.

Can't imagine why you'd want 600'. We had 300' of 3/8" cheap polypropylene and I cut 50' off because it's easier to fit on the spool now.

We only stern tied 3 times out of about 75 anchorages, including 2 weeks in the Gulfs. So I think people prioritize it as a worry a lot more than it warrants.

Breaking strength isn't a big concern because the anchorages you're likely to stern tie will have about 2 knots of wind, maybe 5, and if it reaches 10 or 12 that's when things will get exciting because the charter boat next to you who threw down their anchor will start dragging. So worry about your neighbors, not how much money you spent on your stern line.

300' is easier to double back than 200-250', but doubling back is a convenience - certainly not essential. When we don't double back, it only adds 5 minutes or so to untie in the morning.

One advantage of the more expensive Samson line you mentioned, I believe, is that it doesn't tangle as easily. Polypropylene tangles awfully easily, though it's less of a problem if you have a good spool system.

[Nikolina]

My two cents, Get the poly, I bought 600' for under 50 bucks. Get a garden hose reel 20 bucks, for the three times you might use it. If you find yourself doing this more often you can upgrade later! I was in the same boat (not really the same boat a different 32 footer) several years ago. Planning a trip around Vancouver Is. Like you I started thinking too much about it and made it harder than it turned out to be.
PS. still have the poly looks like new, hint: when not using it store it out of the sun
PSS. for all the tree huggers you have to "ring" the bark all the way around to kill it!

[senormechanico]

If you really need to tie to shore, look carefully at the spot you have picked out.
There are often short lines around trees left by former cruisers which have a loop at the end for your stern tie.
I've left a few myself. For example one each in Roscoe near the creek and on a big Oak tree in Tenedos.

BTW a rant about people who anchor with 600 feet of stern line and drop their anchor in the middle of the bay.
WHAT ??? Yup, it happened over and over in Roscoe bay. It takes up about 3 or 4 boat single hook spaces. Just DUMB !!

[ur2slo]

Originally Posted by basssears

So what kind of line would you recommend? Just standard 3 strand, non floating?

My 2 cents Samson Amsteel Blue, it floats.

Product

[lamadriver]

Amsteel.... hmm well

Ive seen boats use Dyneema, its small, floats but doesnt stretch and isnt real knot friendly. Its also $$$$ muy caro !

my two pseo's.......

LD

[Rufduck]

[QUOTE. From 1st post...Based on what I've read I'm leaning towards getting two 300' spools for 3/8" floating polypropylene line (seems like two spools of 300' would be easier to manage than 1 spool of 600')... this stuff is only rated at 1400# - 1800# breaking strength though... presumably unless a long way away I would be doubling the line through a ring or around a (dead) tree so I'd get double the strength, still only 2400# - 3600#...]

While trying to find a useful windable spool to carry several hundred feet of mfp stern tie line, I stumbled across this thread. I also found it repeated several times in subsequent threads on other forums.

I believe that this is dangerously incorrect. Just taking the line through an eye, around a tree or rock goes nothing to increase the strength of the line. If your line breaks at 600# and your boat puts 601# of tension on the line (unless each line is attached to shore independent of the other), the line will part.

Just don't want to be hit by someone during the gale that blew through at 2300 hrs.

Cheers

..

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by Rufduck

I believe that this is dangerously incorrect. Just taking the line through an eye, around a tree or rock goes nothing to increase the strength of the line. If your line breaks at 600# and your boat puts 601# of tension on the line (unless each line is attached to shore independent of the other), the line will part.
..

Of course a line doubled will half the load on the line. It will of course do nothing to increase the holding power of anything but the line. Also, tying two separate lines is actually NOT helping things unless you can somehow guarantee that both lines have the same tension in them .... which is pretty much impossible. It will give you more holding power EXCEPT for the line portion. In other words, if you have a line that has a breaking strength of 1000 lbs and you take it around a pulley on shore and double it back to the boat, you will exert a force of up to 2000 lbs onto the boat before the line parts.
Note that wrapping a line around a tree will NOT do the same thing as the line isn't free to equalize tension in the two legs.
If you tie two separate lines you CAN increase the total force on the boat compared to a single line before the lines part but it will NEVER be more than a doubled line that is free to equalize the tension in the two line sections.

[senormechanico]

In the PNW, 3/8 poly lasts forever and is plenty strong enough.
The UV factor is negligible up here.

Don't bother with a stern line if you can help it.
Besides being (imho, a Canadian dumb idea in the first place) most of the time it's not necessary.
Who wants to anchor in a parking lot? Next anchorage please ! to the late comers.
You should have arrived earlier...show up at the next tide change and grab a spot.

[deblen]

I'm from a lobster fishing community. There is pot warp on the market that is vastly stronger & longer lasting than hardware store general purpose (usually yellow) polyprop.
Polyethylene,dynasteel,polysteel,etc are some names.
Pot warp is sold by the lb in 100,200,300 fathom coils(600,1200,1800 ft)
3/8 " will run about 50lb/600 ft coil @ $2.00/lb +/-,so you can buy a lot of rope for $100-$200. Maybe even go up to 7/16 or 1/2".
Check with local fishermen for their experience & sources.

The outside canvas from Old firehose,thrown out by the FDept,makes super chafe gear.

Fisheries Supply should carry floating pot warp.
Here is one east coast link 3/8" Hydropro Orange Med/Sft Pot Warp | Friendship Trap Co.

Another east coast link is Hamilton Marine.

Hope this helps
Len