Suggestions for Second Anchor?

[SkiprJohn]

I'm a big fan of heavy chain to keep the anchor biting into the bottom. If you are not using 3/8" then you may not be getting enough weight down there where it's needed. For my 23,000 lb boat my most used anchor was 45 lb CQR. I say was because I haven't anchored in awhile. I carry a big Fortress and 63 lb CQR for storm conditions.
If you can up your chain weight by using a kellet or angel and still use your current anchor windlass you might just consider doing that.
Good luck in your choice.

[foggysail]

Been there done that! Others have offered similar suggestions than I will give.

GET RID OF THE DELTA!!! If need be, place it on your fireplace mantle if you have one. It cannot do any damage there. I tried a 55# on my Silverton aftcabin 40'-- weighs somewhere in the 26-28K range. Held ok until the wild wind blew and then Mr. Delta became a bottom plow.

So I upgraded to an 88# Delta. Its performance was no better than the 55 even though the 88 is way overkill for my boat. My Manson Supreme holds supremely well.

There is another thread floating around on anchor sizes. There is a advocate for smaller sized anchor use. One may be able to get by with a smaller anchor if the anchor is one of the newer technology ones. Personally I like to sleep at night so my boat uses an 80# MS. If you enjoy sleeping, GO BIG!


Foggy

[Kenomac]

I haven't been as happy with the roll bar type anchor in weeds or hard grassy bottom; 'dragged once using a 60 pound Rocna on a 45 ft Hunter following a wind shift, they don't seem to dig as deep. But other than that one event, the anchor worked great.

My preferred anchor set up for our 25 ton boat would be a 45kg Ultra Anchor, Fortress 55 kedge and 300 ft of 1/2 chain with the present 34kg CQR as backup.

There's plenty of folks out there who are very happy with their older pre-Chinese Rocnas, Manson Supreme and Spades. All are good choices.

[marujo.sortudo]

Anchor selection is a bit like religion. You'll get a lot of strong opinions, but very little science. That said, a lot of experienced cruisers that I respect are fans of the "new gen" anchors mentioned above as a primary. Lots of sailors are also fans of Fortresses as secondary anchors, and personally, I think they'd shine in a tandem anchoring situation. Yachtsmans are still favored by some as storm anchors. I haven't seen many folks raving about Deltas, though, so maybe they aren't that good. As for myself, I carry a primary, secondary & storm Wilcox & Crittenden pattern yachtsman and they bite like it's their job, love tough bottom types and have held us through gales in good mud. Only dragged once, and that had do to fouling the fluke with a sloppy set in light conditions. Heck, even the tiny 15# stern Northill has held in near gale conditions, and I didn't expect that. If that's not enough heresy, none of the anchors has more than 9' of chain on it. People have gone 100s of thousands of miles on CQRs, but you'll find them laying around in marine consignment stores like so much garbage now. I think the best thing is to know your ground tackle (whatever it is,) know it's limits, and know how to use it well. Should you find yourself weighing the merits between a Rocna and a Spade there's a lovely thread on Morgan's Cloud page with cruisers detailing their actual experiences with the two that I'm sure you can google up.

[onestepcsy37]

i'm with kettlewell and his ilk. after 35 years of every anchor under the sun i'm sold on my 45 lb manson supreme. been using it two years now in florida/bahamas and it's never failed to bite first time every time. also using all chain - 3/8" bbb.

my secondary is currently a 35lb hi tensile danforth with chain and line, but i've never actually deployed it. i'm in the market for a third anchor, probably a new gen style, but not sure which yet. i think i would like to get one that's really heavy, say 65lbs, to keep for the ultimate storm. like all the guys are saying, good to have a variety of anchors.

by the way, there's a block island 40 hauled out near me. beautiful boat.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

My thinking has always been that you want your primary anchor to be one that will hold you in up to and beyond gale force winds, and then your secondary to be relatively light and useful as a kedge, for Bahamiam moors, and to put out in a V when it looks like you're going to get an exceptionally big blow. I would recommend upgrading your primary, on all chain, to a 45-lb something like a Mantus/Manson/Rocna/Spade, which seem to be everyone's favorites right now. Then the secondary could be something like a Fortress FX-37 on mostly rope. I myself would stow that anchor off the bow, as chances are good you won't be using it most of the time, and it will just be in the way up there. On my 38-foot motorsailor, fairly heavy and with some windage, I use a 45-lb primary Mantus and have two Fortress FX-23s I use like I described above.

+1

This is good advice. A dragging anchor can result in loss of your boat or even your life. You don't want to screw around with that. You want the best and biggest anchor you can handle as your primary, and this is not the place to economize. I think it is fundamentally flawed to consciously use a mediocre and/or undersized anchor as a primary, with something bigger squirreled away as a storm anchor, or some half-baked plan to put out several crappy, undersized anchors in case of need.

Experience shows you often don't know in advance when you suddenly really need that anchor to hold. I think good seamanship means anchoring properly, properly setting a good anchor every time, with proper scope, proper snubbers and chain stoppers, even when you expect a flat calm. It's a bit of trouble and time compared to just dumping the anchor over followed by a pile of chain, but it is the essence of prudence and good seamanship.

The only "storm anchor" worth having, IMHO, is something so massive you can't handle it on a daily basis. But then you have the problem of how to stow it. So really worthwhile "storm anchors" are not very common.

[sabray]

Course there was a couple that struck out with might and weight on the bow. The old camper Nicholson wouldn't sail for squat.
With a reasonable anchor she may have faired better. But no she was heavy on the bow geared for every moment. Low on her lines. She would not point up. Misery ensued, they had covered all contingency so food was a plenty. Yet the boat was a pig and soon they could take no more of it.
Retreat occurred the boat was sold.
Great read ( two against the horn) how Hal and Martha sailed off a anchor, they practiced this. Why? Cause sometime you may need to do that.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by flink

I appreciate all the suggestions and the consensus seems to be to just go with a new gen anchor. I see the point and may very well do that. But one question I still have is this:

My research of anchors has left me with the impression that there is no single anchor that is good for all bottoms types. Some do well in soft sand and mud but perform poorly in grassy bottoms or hard-packed sand. Others will perform well in grass and hard sand but perform poorly in loose mud or sand.

Does it not make sense to have tackle on the bow that will work in all bottoms? If so, wouldn't this require 2 hooks up front?

Not being argumentative. I appreciate the advice. I'm just trying to make certain that I'm going with the best decision. These anchors are not cheap and the chain is rediculously priced as well. I just want to make sure my money is well spent.

You all seem to agree that one bad-ass anchor should be all I need. If so, which do you guys think is the best "all-around" anchor? I've only been cruising for a year and a half and don't have a whole lot of experience with different types. I don't want to get any fireworks started. I'm just wondering if there is an anchor that is most commonly employed by cruisers. And if so, why?

Thanks again for the suggestions. Very helpfull.

In my opinion, new gen anchors are best by far in every bottom type EXCEPT 1. Fine, soft mud or sand; 2. Weed; or 3. (shudder) rock.

There is no all-around anchor which works well in really soft bottoms, or in rock. Weed is controversial - see the recent thread on this.

For rock - just avoid it, if you can. It's the very devil to anchor in. If you can't avoid it, then the only anchor which seems to more or less work at all is the fisherman (aka yachtsman), which can't be stored on modern bow rollers and which must be truly massive to be very effective.

For very soft bottoms - by far the type which gives me problems most often - again, avoid. If you can't, the Fortress with the mud palms and the flukes set at the right angle is the way to go. I keep a large Fortress Fx55 rigged and ready to go with its own rode in my anchor locker for this and a myriad of other special anchoring situations. As others have said, this is the ideal kedge/second anchor.

For grass, theoretically roll bar anchors are at a disadvantage. Theoretically, something like a Spade with lead ballasting and a sharp fluke should work much better in weed with no roll bar to foul and with the dense, sharp fluke properly configured to cut through. I can't very this in practice however - so far weed is always hard for me whatever anchor I'm using. If you are carrying a fisherman for rock, that shield be good for weed, too, I would think.

So to answer your question, and to summarize - your primary anchor should be a good all-arounder for the bottom types prevalent where you cruise. If you have a Fortress besides a new gen anchor, then you're set for the vast majority of bottom types in most places. Avoid weed and rock as much as possible. If you can't, then probably nothing other than a giant fisherman which will never go on your bow roller is going to be much good.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by marujo.sortudo

Anchor selection is a bit like religion. You'll get a lot of strong opinions, but very little science. That said, a lot of experienced cruisers that I respect are fans of the "new gen" anchors mentioned above as a primary. Lots of sailors are also fans of Fortresses as secondary anchors, and personally, I think they'd shine in a tandem anchoring situation. Yachtsmans are still favored by some as storm anchors. I haven't seen many folks raving about Deltas, though, so maybe they aren't that good. As for myself, I carry a primary, secondary & storm Wilcox & Crittenden pattern yachtsman and they bite like it's their job, love tough bottom types and have held us through gales in good mud. Only dragged once, and that had do to fouling the fluke with a sloppy set in light conditions. Heck, even the tiny 15# stern Northill has held in near gale conditions, and I didn't expect that. If that's not enough heresy, none of the anchors has more than 9' of chain on it. People have gone 100s of thousands of miles on CQRs, but you'll find them laying around in marine consignment stores like so much garbage now. I think the best thing is to know your ground tackle (whatever it is,) know it's limits, and know how to use it well. Should you find yourself weighing the merits between a Rocna and a Spade there's a lovely thread on Morgan's Cloud page with cruisers detailing their actual experiences with the two that I'm sure you can google up.

Yachtsman (fisherman) anchors have only two disadvantages that I know about 1. Very easy to foul the rode on the lazy fluke; 2. Very small effective fluke area for the weight. If you are skillful enough to avoid 1., and if you can size the anchor to overcome 2., then they are probably the ideal anchors. Probably the best anchor for a rocky place like Maine.

[sabray]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yachtsman (fisherman) anchors have only two disadvantages that I know about 1. Very easy to foul the rode on the lazy fluke; 2. Very small effective fluke area for the weight. If you are skillful enough to avoid 1., and if you can size the anchor to overcome 2., then they are probably the ideal anchors. Probably the best anchor for a rocky place like Maine.

Try getting it back up topside stowed and you might add a three to your 2.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sabray

Try getting it back up topside stowed and you might add a three to your 2.

Ok, ok - you're right :

3. Awkward to stow and launch on anything other than a square-rigger with proper catheads.

[flink]

I have a 40 lb danforth (should work well in place of Fortress I assume??).
I also have the big-ass yachtsman/fisherman (not sure of the weight).
I have a smaller danforth as well for a kedge.
I have my Delta (will use as spare)
And, I'm leaning toward a Manson Supreme or a Mantus as my primary.
This is all based on the info you guys have provided coupled with my research in new gen anchors.
This should have all of my bases covered. I really appreciate all the help.
Thanks guys.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by flink

I have a 40 lb danforth (should work well in place of Fortress I assume??).
I also have the big-ass yachtsman/fisherman (not sure of the weight).
I have a smaller danforth as well for a kedge.
I have my Delta (will use as spare)
And, I'm leaning toward a Manson Supreme or a Mantus as my primary.
This is all based on the info you guys have provided coupled with my research in new gen anchors.
This should have all of my bases covered. I really appreciate all the help.
Thanks guys.

There's mud, and then there's mud (sometimes aka slime). The Delta we used would set and hold OK in hard mud, but not in soft mud -- which is common here on the Chesapeake.

The adjustable Fortress style has a few advantages (IMO) over a plain Danforth, especially in soft mud: larger flukes for the same weight, adjustability for normal bottoms or soft mud, and the optional mud palms.

We use the Fortress as a secondary, folded and stowed, with it's own available rope/chain rode. The Delta lives in the lazerette.

-Chris

[Cotemar]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

My thinking has always been that you want your primary anchor to be one that will hold you in up to and beyond gale force winds, and then your secondary to be relatively light and useful as a kedge, for Bahamiam moors, and to put out in a V when it looks like you're going to get an exceptionally big blow. I would recommend upgrading your primary, on all chain, to a 45-lb something like a Mantus/Manson/Rocna/Spade, which seem to be everyone's favorites right now. Then the secondary could be something like a Fortress FX-37 on mostly rope. I myself would stow that anchor off the bow, as chances are good you won't be using it most of the time, and it will just be in the way up there. On my 38-foot motorsailor, fairly heavy and with some windage, I use a 45-lb primary Mantus and have two Fortress FX-23s I use like I described above.

This is the right recipe for success- I third this !

An look Mantus anchors is located in Texas.

Up on the bow as the primary is best and they stow well also.

[MarkJ]

I have a Delta and its good except for cutting through week like the manatee sea grass crap. Which isn't too pre leant in the rest of the world.

A couple of others have said a new generation anchor. I agree. If I had a few bucks I would get a Manson Suprime and, as CFarrar says keep the Delta in the locker as a Kedge. I have used a kedge twice in 5 years. Marquesas.... And I forget the other time.

I have 330 feet of chain and love it

In a storm I stick to just one anchor. The V thing is problematic in my experience. One anchor lots of chain. And if its a hurricane then you have the Delta to ad to the Manson in tandem ie both on the same chain.

But I would keep the Delta if the replacement was any other than a new generation anchor.