Suggestions for Second Anchor?

[flink]

I currently have a 35 lb Delta Anchor mounted on my bow that I use as my primary anchor on my Block Island 40 (aproximately 23,000 lbs.).

The Delta has worked well in mud and sand but it has dragged occasionally in winds greater than 30 mph with wave action and other times when I probably didn't take enough time to set it correctly. I am reasonably pleased with it but I am currently cruising and intend to visit many places with different types of bottoms to anchor in and will likely have to anchor in many exposed areas in less than ideal weather conditions.

I am trying to find an anchor that gives me strong holding power in different types of bottoms. Ideally I would like to find one that holds in the types of bottoms where the Delta has trouble. I would like to compliment the Delta with another anchor that will compensate for it's short-commings and not simply a redundant anchor.

Also, my cradle for my delta sits just to the right of my fore-stay. I will need to install another cradle to the left (and extended further out) but I don't see how I can mount the second anchor/cradle and be able to deploy the anchor on the shorter cradle without it catching on the other.

Lastly, I've thought about mounting an oversized anchor for my second anchor and using 300' of heavy chain. Is their a reason I may not want to do this?

BTW: I do keep a big Danforth and a large yachtsman in my locker as spares and I have a small Danforth for a kedge. I just need another go-to anchor up front at the ready.

I appreciate your thoughts, comments, suggestions.

[skipmac]

Best holding power in mud, soft sand and similar is a Fortress anchor. Downside is they do not reset well if there is a major shift in wind or current.

My anchor philosophy is to keep a couple of different types on the boat as no anchor is best for all bottom types.

[flink]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Best holding power in mud, soft sand and similar is a Fortress anchor. Downside is they do not reset well if there is a major shift in wind or current.

My anchor philosophy is to keep a couple of different types on the boat as no anchor is best for all bottom types.

Thanks skipmac. That's pretty much my point. My Delta does well in soft sand and mud. I'm looking for one that will perform well in grass, hard-packed sand, etc. As I mentioned; I have other anchors but I need one that will compensate for the Delta's short-commings and one that I can mount on the bow next to the Delta. Wouldn't the Fortress be rather redundant?

[cfarrar]

In my humble opinion, the simplest solution is to replace the 35# Delta with a larger, new generation anchor. You'll be amazed at the difference, and this will be all that you need 98% of the time. Keep the Delta in the locker with the Danforth for those rare times when you need a second anchor (small anchorage and limited swing room) or a large fluke anchor like the Danforth (real soft Chesapeake mud). Unless you're cruising Newfoundland or Patagonia, leave the fisherman at home in the flower garden.

[Kettlewell]

My thinking has always been that you want your primary anchor to be one that will hold you in up to and beyond gale force winds, and then your secondary to be relatively light and useful as a kedge, for Bahamiam moors, and to put out in a V when it looks like you're going to get an exceptionally big blow. I would recommend upgrading your primary, on all chain, to a 45-lb something like a Mantus/Manson/Rocna/Spade, which seem to be everyone's favorites right now. Then the secondary could be something like a Fortress FX-37 on mostly rope. I myself would stow that anchor off the bow, as chances are good you won't be using it most of the time, and it will just be in the way up there. On my 38-foot motorsailor, fairly heavy and with some windage, I use a 45-lb primary Mantus and have two Fortress FX-23s I use like I described above.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

My thinking has always been that you want your primary anchor to be one that will hold you in up to and beyond gale force winds, and then your secondary to be relatively light and useful as a kedge, for Bahamiam moors, and to put out in a V when it looks like you're going to get an exceptionally big blow. I would recommend upgrading your primary, on all chain, to a 45-lb something like a Mantus/Manson/Rocna/Spade, which seem to be everyone's favorites right now. Then the secondary could be something like a Fortress FX-37 on mostly rope. I myself would stow that anchor off the bow, as chances are good you won't be using it most of the time, and it will just be in the way up there. On my 38-foot motorsailor, fairly heavy and with some windage, I use a 45-lb primary Mantus and have two Fortress FX-23s I use like I described above.

This is the right recipe for success- I second this !

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by flink

Thanks skipmac. That's pretty much my point. My Delta does well in soft sand and mud. I'm looking for one that will perform well in grass, hard-packed sand, etc. As I mentioned; I have other anchors but I need one that will compensate for the Delta's short-commings and one that I can mount on the bow next to the Delta. Wouldn't the Fortress be rather redundant?

Sorry I guess I misunderstood. Your original post I thought you were saying that your Delta occasionally dragged in sand and mud when the winds were over 30 kts.

Second the recommendation to buy a new generation anchor. Pick your poison of Mantus, Rocna, Manson, etc. I have a Mantus and an older made in New Zealand Rocna in addition to a Fortress.

[Cheechako]

The Delta should do well in sand, shell and coarse mud. If it's not, you need to figure out what's really down there. Mud on top of clay or hard pan can be almost impossible for any anchor. Or that really fine mud seems to allow anchors to pull thru it. A fortress may help if it's fine mud and deep enough for it to set properly. or as said, roll the dice on a new design anchor....

[flink]

I appreciate all the suggestions and the consensus seems to be to just go with a new gen anchor. I see the point and may very well do that. But one question I still have is this:

My research of anchors has left me with the impression that there is no single anchor that is good for all bottoms types. Some do well in soft sand and mud but perform poorly in grassy bottoms or hard-packed sand. Others will perform well in grass and hard sand but perform poorly in loose mud or sand.

Does it not make sense to have tackle on the bow that will work in all bottoms? If so, wouldn't this require 2 hooks up front?

Not being argumentative. I appreciate the advice. I'm just trying to make certain that I'm going with the best decision. These anchors are not cheap and the chain is rediculously priced as well. I just want to make sure my money is well spent.

You all seem to agree that one bad-ass anchor should be all I need. If so, which do you guys think is the best "all-around" anchor? I've only been cruising for a year and a half and don't have a whole lot of experience with different types. I don't want to get any fireworks started. I'm just wondering if there is an anchor that is most commonly employed by cruisers. And if so, why?

Thanks again for the suggestions. Very helpfull.

[Kettlewell]

That is a loaded question and will likely start another anchor war. The correct answer is that there is no consensus on the single "best" anchor. All of the new-generation types have their proponents, and I don't think you can go wrong with a Rocna/Manson Supreme/Mantus/Spade. They are very versatile, and you should find that your main anchor will perform well 90% of the time.

[bobconnie]

To me it seems your anchors just a little light! Ive had good luck with the delta, but I would like a larger size for a 40 ft cruiseing boat ! With all chain if ya can stand the weight up front!! The new age anchors are just fine, but a delta 20 lbs larger would do the job I would think !! Just my 2 cents

[sabray]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

To me it seems your anchors just a little light! Ive had good luck with the delta, but I would like a larger size for a 40 ft cruiseing boat ! With all chain if ya can stand the weight up front!! The new age anchors are just fine, but a delta 20 lbs larger would do the job I would think !! Just my 2 cents

That was my first thought. Size up as the size is on the lower reach. . No fan of the way overkill massive anchor. I have 60 kg Bruce and 65 lb Manson plus a fortress on the stern. All have updated rhode. Use a snubber to absorb shock loads. Standard reply.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by flink

I appreciate all the suggestions and the consensus seems to be to just go with a new gen anchor. I see the point and may very well do that. But one question I still have is this:

My research of anchors has left me with the impression that there is no single anchor that is good for all bottoms types. Some do well in soft sand and mud but perform poorly in grassy bottoms or hard-packed sand. Others will perform well in grass and hard sand but perform poorly in loose mud or sand.

Does it not make sense to have tackle on the bow that will work in all bottoms? If so, wouldn't this require 2 hooks up front?

Not being argumentative. I appreciate the advice. I'm just trying to make certain that I'm going with the best decision. These anchors are not cheap and the chain is rediculously priced as well. I just want to make sure my money is well spent.

You all seem to agree that one bad-ass anchor should be all I need. If so, which do you guys think is the best "all-around" anchor? I've only been cruising for a year and a half and don't have a whole lot of experience with different types. I don't want to get any fireworks started. I'm just wondering if there is an anchor that is most commonly employed by cruisers. And if so, why?

Thanks again for the suggestions. Very helpfull.

Our Oyster came with a Lewmar CQR which we've been very happy with. Most of the Oyster and Discovery boats are purpose built to take their owners anywhere they want to go, and most do spend lot's of time cruising like us. They all come standard with a CQR which seems to be a good all around anchor which doesn't have trouble resetting itself with a wind shift just so long as it was set correctly to begin with. I anchored for two weeks off Saint Peter Port, Guernsey last summer, despite enormous tidal shifts 28-30 feet in height, the CRQ never let me down or dragged at all. 'Was like anchoring during a tsunami at times. It just seems to plow a deep hole in a small circle with each directional change. When comparing a Delta to a CQR, I think the proper hinge on the Lewmar makes all the difference along with an all chain rode with snubber.

The Oyster 82 next to us also had a CQR. Our friends on a Discovery 55 dragged with an over-sized Spade.

That said, I hope to add an over-sized Ultra Anchor in the near future for use in weeds, but there's no hurry. I also have a Fortress 55 for kedge and storm. In a storm, I'd use the Fortress in tandem with the CQR.

[klem]

As posted above, replacing your current main anchor with an appropriately sized new generation anchor is likely the best way to go. As to the question of having to carry multiple anchors for different bottoms, the new generation anchors will outperform any of the old generation anchors in any bottom type in my opinion. Because I have yet to run into a bottom type where I could find a better anchor than a new generation, I no longer worry about carrying a selection (note: I have heard reports of a few very specific high latitude places where this is not true but this doesn't sound like what you will be doing).

Still, having a second anchor aboard is critical and it must meet many of the same specifications as your primary. The situations where it is likely to be used are where you are dragging, where kedging is required and where you loose your main anchor. In a dragging situation, what you need is an anchor that will bite really quickly no matter what the bottom is and provide a decent amount of holding power. For this, I would choose another new generation anchor, while anchors like a fortress can provide more holding power, I have found them to be unreliable to set when drifting backwards at several knots. For kedging, something that is light and easy to handle with good holding power is best. While you can pinch your hands with them, the fortress is usually the best anchor for this. For situations where you have lost your primary hook, your second anchor needs to be capable of setting well, veering, resetting, etc until you can get a new primary but it is okay if it is a bit harder to handle(fit in the bow roller, etc). For this purpose, something like a new generation anchor works well.

It is up to you to decide what type of cruising you will be doing and exactly what specs the second anchor must meet. For example, if you you never are more than a 1 hour sail from your home mooring, a second anchor is probably unnecessary. However, if you plan to ride out named storms on the hook, then both your primary and secondaries better be up to the task on their own. It may well be that your current delta would make a reasonable second anchor for the type of cruising you are planning.

We carry 2 new gen anchors (different models) and a danforth. One new gen lives on the bow and is used everyday and the other is our backup. The danforth is used if we ever need to set a second anchor for any reason as it is easier to handle.

[flink]

Thanks guys,

This is very helpful. I am now looking into which new gen anchor I intend to purchase. I will keep my Delta as back-up. All of the suggestions here seem to agree that one hook up front is sufficient provided it's the "right" anchor.

I appreciate all of the help.