Swivel the weak link?

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by thinwater

No, it won't. The anchor will spin without a swivel on the way up.

And since the chain cannot turn in the windlass gypsy, you DO NOT want the swivel in any different rotation than when it was lowered, not if you want
it all to line up right. If there is a twist between the roller and the gypsy, lowering a few feet generally sorts that out.

I feel vindicated . . . since I used this logic when installing my anchor, rode and Capstan with NO swivel, even though I have a few in my possession. Thanks.

[a64pilot]

45,000 lb boat, 90 lb Rocna, 5/16 chain?


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[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

45,000 lb boat, 90 lb Rocna, 5/16 chain?


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Do you see a problem? Too much anchor? Too little chain? Or merely asking for confirmation?

[a64pilot]

Awful small chain I think, Rocna would seem to agree as they recommend 7/16" for their 88 lb anchor


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[Training Wheels]

I use 5/16" G7 for my 10,000# boat. I have considered I may need an intervention.........

[skipgundlach]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Awful small chain I think, Rocna would seem to agree as they recommend 7/16" for their 88 lb anchor


Sent from my iPad Pro using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Hm. I missed that. My 73# uses 5/16 G4...

[Bulawayo]

Perhaps a typo? I would go 3/8" or 10mm in new money - Hi Grade.

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

Hm. I missed that. My 73# uses 5/16 G4...

[Steve Bedford]

Many good opinions and information on this thread. One thing you do not want is a weak link in any component of your ground tackle. A swivel could be that weak link however, if one component is undersized as compared to other components, that becomes a weak link. Most captains we work with do not use swivels for most of the reasons that have been mentioned before.

Personally, in years of anchoring, our anchor has yet to come up with a problem "righting itself" for our bow roller. We do not have a swivel and use two Crosby shackles properly sized with the other components of our ground tackle.

I might suggest a great new read on the entire anchoring process: Anchoring, A Ground Tackler's Apprentice by Rudy and Jill Sechez. This quick read is helpful and informative for the novice as well as the experienced captain.

Steve

[SVNeko]

We use 5/16 G7 on a Rocna 33kg. Maggi 5/1 G7 is stronger than anybody's 3/8 G4. It just lifts off the bottom sooner.

[Spade Anchor]

Swivels should only be purchased to remedy a problem. If your chain is binding up when retrieving, if the anchor is having problems properly locating as it is retrieved ( spun in wrong direction ) or if you have an issue with the chain fouling on the anchor when set.
If you do not have any of these issues then we recommend "if it's not broke don't fix it" method.
Modern swivels are doing everything possible to dispel the history of swivels. The overall opinion of swivels is that they are a weak point in the rode. Historically that is correct, but just like when the new generation anchors came about the new generation swivels are correcting that issue. The Wasi Powerball Swivel is the only swivel endorsed by German Lloyd's and the only swivel Spade Anchor endorses. Pictured is the technical info.
https://www.spadeanchorusa.com/power-ball-swivel

[skipgundlach]

The new generation anchors are so good at embedding themselves that they frequently bring up more bottom than the anchor itself weighs.

Getting it off the anchor would require a firehose, something most cruisers won't have available to them, or a prolonged scraping session, which is uncomfortable and maybe dangerous, depending on the bow setup.

The only practical means of cleaning for many cruisers, myself included, involves forward motion for some time, when the force of the water moving over it eventually removes the debris.

That of necessity places the point forward, just exactly wrong to retrieve. A swivel can help, but if it doesn't overcome the opposition to tip-down, it's not the end of the game...

[contrail]

As I mentioned earlier, just reverse for a few feet, maybe a boat length at absolute max, and your now-clean anchor will flip back over to the correct orientation. Alternately, you can slowly reverse and clean off the anchor that way, rather than go forward.

[skipgundlach]

LOL

Reversing after we're well under way would be the pits.

and...

We'd have to back a half mile to achieve what we do under way, I think...

[contrail]

Originally Posted by skipgundlach

LOL

Reversing after we're well under way would be the pits.

and...

We'd have to back a half mile to achieve what we do under way, I think...

Don't think you got it! A previous poster mentioned letting the anchor dangle in the water as they moved forward, to let it clean. Their complaint was that this flips the anchor over, so that it won't come up correctly over the roller. And this definitely happens. So....my suggestions, both of which work...are to come to a stop to do the final lifting (on most boats, you have to do that anyway, so that the anchor doesn't bang the hull), and then gently reverse for a few feet, which flips the anchor back. Alternately, rather than going forward for a bit to clean the anchor, do it in reverse. Having done this many times, it works as well in reverse as in forward. But, if that doesn't appeal, just stop and reverse a few feet. Or, turn the anchor over with your hand.

[skipgundlach]

Heh. That PP was me.

It really does take prolonged immersion under way, at various depths to allow different water flow direction, to clean our Rocna more often than not. If it's plain clean sand, not so much, but more agglomerative stuff is tenacious to say the least.

That said, one of the self-righting swivels would make the difference. After wringing out the Rocna beta, I'll know for sure - and report back.