The best manual windlass question

[AmzngGrace]

So... ANYONE who has spent time with a manual windlass I got a question. Lets say that 5:1 scope gives you ~200 feet of rode in 40’ of water. Lets say you have all chain 5/16”. Lets say that the hawsepipe (sp?) is under the windlass. OK now your done and want to pull up the anchor... You motor the boat till anchor is ~vertical, which takes up about ~160’ of chain pretty quickly and is done without much fanfare. Now, what is the situation? Did you manually use the windlass for that 160’ of chain to put it away or did you hand over hand the chain then put it into the locker? To me, both options have issues. The former means that it took you about 27 minutes to winch the chain into the pipe, (~1 foot every 10 seconds = 6 feet every minute. 160 feet/6=26.7 minutes). Alternative to this is bringing it up hand over hand quickly to deck which will impact the gel coat and then you have to stick the chain into the little hole under the windlass and spend quite a lot of time getting that chain in there. Either option then precedes the real reason you want the windlass which is to break the anchor loose and bring up the last 40 feet (at about 1 foot every 10 secs = 6.7 minutes). I get that I approximated the rate of 1 foot every 10 sec but still seems like it will take along time for a common depth of 40 feet and either time to pump the chain into the locker or damage to gel coat plus time still to get the chain into the hawsepipe.
I know we have alot of time on our hands but 30 minutes for 40 feet?
Am I missing something?

[Muaddib1116]

I didn't think manual windlasses were that slow. Are you sure yours is working properly?

[AmzngGrace]

Just guessin’. You got this pipe handle that you put into it and swing it. It brings chain in both directions. The handle is like 2 feet long. If I move my hand in simulation mode in an imaginary arc and just guess, it seems that its about that long. Could be 8 secs but that cuts the time 20% so 24 minutes. Maybe thats ok... (as long as I dont watch the smiling guy in the next boat press that button...

[Muaddib1116]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7dmHNjmZzc

I don't know if all manual windlasses work like this, but this one has 2 speeds. The high speed seems much faster than 6ft/min. The low speed looks like it might be as slow as you think.

[Mike OReilly]

I've never actually timed or measured my windlass' action, but my guestimate is that each pull/push moves the chain two to three inches. So that makes two to three full cycles (push-pull) since my windlass is double-action. I'd say each push or pull takes about a second to accomplish, so four to six seconds per foot.

So, a bit faster than your estimate. But still not fast. Of course, if you want to go faster, you can. Just pump harder. Sometimes speed is needed. Most of the time I take my time, sipping my second coffee, and just get into the push-pull cycle. It's kinda meditative.

Mine looks like this, except it carries a fine green patina.



Most of the time I use the windlass to bring in the entire rode. Sometimes if I'm in a big hurry I'll hand-over-hand the initial lengths. Mine drops/flows easily down the hawse pipe if I stand over the windlass. But this is harder work than simply using the winch. I have a teak deck, so no problem with a few chain bangs.

[Knotical]

That’s it, I am getting an electric windlass now ;-)

[Cheechako]

You are not missing something and spot on.
Winch it right into the locker. With luck you will only have to go down and push the pile over once.
Buy the fastest retrieval manual windlass you can get . It isn't really the power you need, it's speed. One of the issues is it takes so long to get it in. In a heavy chop where the chain is pulling up bar tight every 10 seconds or so, you may bend your windlass shaft, so once someone motors the boat forward, retrieve fast!

[seacap]

I never anchor in water deeper than 25’ if I can avoid it. Once in 4 years in the Caribbean I anchored in 40. I knew going in it would take a long time to recover the anchor with my manual windlass.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by seacap

I never anchor in water deeper than 25’ if I can avoid it. Once in 4 years in the Caribbean I anchored in 40. I knew going in it would take a long time to recover the anchor with my manual windlass.

Key here is if one can avoid it. There are anchorages at Bora Bora where you used to be able to anchor in that depth, but others with depths of 68-80 ft. My understanding is that one is no longer allowed to anchor in the shallow water, and must take moorings. One clears out of Bora Bora headed west, and gets one's repatriation deposit back there, as well. Otherwise you'd have to miss most of the Societies.

Ann

[AmzngGrace]

Thank you all... I think some adjusting would justify the manual. BTW note that I am spending all my time in the San Juans, in PNW.

1. 40’ anchor is not the norm if you plan it right. More like 20-25??? 25 is now 125’ scope, not 200... (at 5:1).
2. A little faster most say so now its maybe 8-9 ft per minute, (in 25’ we are looking at ~14 minutes...).
3. And then there is the coffee and the “ease” if and when you hand it up to get it in the pipe...
4. And if... (big if), I decide to make big left turn out of PNW and go to distant lands, I will just replace this manual Lofrans and sell it. There should always be a market for it I am thinking.

[sv_pelagia]

Plenty of anchorages in BC that are 50-70+ feet at high tide (and then add height of bow roller...)

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Plenty of anchorages in BC that are 50-70+ feet at high tide (and then add height of bow roller...)

Yep, that's what I was thinking in my early post. You really need 300 ft + total up here somehow.

[Benz]

Mine is set up so that I can hand-over hand the chain straight into the deckpipe (spurling pipe, hawse, call it what you will). If I get tired or need to put it down suddenly, I drop it right into the gypsy.
If you anchor in 40' of water, you don't need 5:1--there's a vast thread on the minituae of shorter scopes as the water deepens.
FWIW, I only motor up to my anchor when the wind's really howling. Otherwise I use the windlass to get way on, and once there's forward momentum it's not hard to hand-over-hand and keep the momentum up that way.
I have pulled up 100+ feet of chain with windlass alone, and it doesn't take so long that I start to hate it.
The Lofrans only has one speed, and I don't think it can be adjusted.

[Pete7]

If its horizontal windlass perhaps. However, my vertical windlass is much quicker. Haven't timed it but underload say 1 turn each second and each turn pulls 1/2 ft of chain in.

Pete

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

I didn't think manual windlasses were that slow. Are you sure yours is working properly?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Benz

Mine is set up so that I can hand-over hand the chain straight into the deckpipe (spurling pipe, hawse, call it what you will). If I get tired or need to put it down suddenly, I drop it right into the gypsy.
If you anchor in 40' of water, you don't need 5:1--there's a vast thread on the minituae of shorter scopes as the water deepens.
FWIW, I only motor up to my anchor when the wind's really howling. Otherwise I use the windlass to get way on, and once there's forward momentum it's not hard to hand-over-hand and keep the momentum up that way.
I have pulled up 100+ feet of chain with windlass alone, and it doesn't take so long that I start to hate it.
The Lofrans only has one speed, and I don't think it can be adjusted.

As Benz says, scope can be reduced in deep water anchoring. But regardless, it has never been a big deal to use my manual windlass to haul in hundreds of feet of chain rode. I rarely have less than 100' out. Probably average around 140'. I prefer anchoring in 25' or less, but you don't always get what you want . Whatever it is, my manual windlass has no problem hauling it in.

And yes, I only motor up to the anchor when conditions demand. Otherwise I actually use the windlass to get the boat moving (horror! ). I know... you're not supposed to do this, but I do ... when conditions allow it. Most of the action comes from catenary, and once the boat is moving its momentum keeps it going with little force exerted at the windlass.

But once again, it is slower than an electric. If speed is the principle drive, then don't get a manual windlass. But it's really not that much slower. It usually take me about twice, maybe three times as long, to get the anchor up and secured compared to my electric buddies. But if you can't live with that, then go electric.

To me, the reason to go electric is not the speed, but rather whether you'll be cruising alone a lot. If I were a solo act I'd definitely want an electric, preferably one that I can control from the cockpit.