The Rocna Experience

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by CAELESTIS

The new anchors have the name cast into the back underside of the blade.

If I order one from one of the many sellers how will I be sure before I get it?

[Hiracer]

This is very true.

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

It's really a vicous cycle and we see it occur time and again.

Someone innovates or invents a really great product. Word gets out and demand grows. Large national retailers also see the demand and want to cash in on it.
Large national retailer negotiates with manufacturer to get the very best price so that they can make a huge profit. Manufacturer is "forced" into an position of agreement in order to protect and grow their maket share.

Manufacturer decides they can make up the lost profit margin with increased volume. Manufacturer needs to find every possible efficiency so that they can still make profit enough to survive. Material cost, labor cost, shipping cost and administrative costs are all stripped to the bone. Production usually moves to India, China, or other third world low wage producers.

National retailer is now accounting for 50+% of the products sales. They have the manufacturer over the proverbial barrel. National retailer goes back to the manufacturer and grinds them for more margin including lower price, freight allowances, advertising allowances, and catalog costs.

Manufacturer suffers more financial strain and again looks for more ways to cut cost of goods . Quality and ability to deliver are negatively effected. National retailer decides they cannot rely upon manufacturer and "Knocks-off" the product. National retailer private-labels the item eliminating the manufacturer and the delivery chain.

Consumers scratch their heads and say,
"They just don't make 'em like they used to..."

[Hiracer]

Originally Posted by Therapy

If I order one from one of the many sellers how will I be sure before I get it?

Call and ask, maybe?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Hiracer

Call and ask, maybe?

I really don't think the person that takes it off the shelf and puts it in my box is the one that I will be talking to.

I may have different sort of luck than you do.

[markpj23]

Originally Posted by Therapy

I really don't think the person that takes it off the shelf and puts it in my box is the one that I will be talking to....

Quite the contrary. Call Azure Marine, the Pembrooke Pines FL distributor. They will likely have it in stock and can tell you exactly what they will ship. Better yet, since you're nearby you can go to their PP warehouse to look at it and save shipping costs.

No affiliation - I bought mine from them and was pleased with their customer service.

[Randyonr3]

The other option is to take the downloaded print and have your local fab shop built you one.. No one is going to inpose infringement on you for making ONE for yourself..
Just dont go into production do such..
A gentelman here in the marina had one built for his 80 foot trawler... the anchor weighed in at around 250 lbs.. For him, it was the cost of shipping one here that put the sale out of the question..

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by markpj23

Quite the contrary. Call Azure Marine, the Pembrooke Pines FL distributor. They will likely have it in stock and can tell you exactly what they will ship. Better yet, since you're nearby you can go to their PP warehouse to look at it and save shipping costs.

No affiliation - I bought mine from them and was pleased with their customer service.

OH YEA.

Looks good.

Best price I have seen yet.

I wish I could buy a cute little one for the dingy don't you?

[markpj23]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

The other option is to take the downloaded print and have your local fab shop built you one.. No one is going to inpose infringement on you for making ONE for yourself..
Just dont go into production do such..
A gentelman here in the marina had one built for his 80 foot trawler... the anchor weighed in at around 250 lbs.. For him, it was the cost of shipping one here that put the sale out of the question..

So... he can afford an 80ft trawler and a potential UPS fee sends him into copycat casting/forging?? I wonder what that trawler actually looks like.....

[James S]

One of our CF members built one for his beautiful new trawler...(I think it's around 60ft) in the PI, and last I heard it was working great.
His wasn't cast.
I think it depends A LOT on where you are...the shipping may be the least of the hassle when it comes to getting something in.

[schoonerdog]

I wouldn't worry about China, they are well known for strict government enforcement of quality standards. And their open system of government would let any mistakes be instantly known.

China charges tainted milk scandal activist - Telegraph

They'd never sacrifice safety of their products for something sold to other countries.

2008 Chinese milk scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's not like they poison their own kids over a period of several years by every major producer of milk in their country, injuring 300,000 people and killing several babies, just to save a few cents per ton of product.

Of course moving production over to China makes sense. After all, if they can be trusted with making 90 percent of our childrens toys in a safe and responsible fashion http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/23/bu...23suicide.html

then we should trust that they wouldn't substitute cheaper steel when your not looking. It's not like it's baby food after all, or chicken, eggs, milk, baking powder, pet food....

Originally Posted by Liam Wald

It's really a vicous cycle and we see it occur time and again.

Someone innovates or invents a really great product. Word gets out and demand grows. Large national retailers also see the demand and want to cash in on it.
Large national retailer negotiates with manufacturer to get the very best price so that they can make a huge profit. Manufacturer is "forced" into an position of agreement in order to protect and grow their maket share.

Manufacturer decides they can make up the lost profit margin with increased volume. Manufacturer needs to find every possible efficiency so that they can still make profit enough to survive. Material cost, labor cost, shipping cost and administrative costs are all stripped to the bone. Production usually moves to India, China, or other third world low wage producers.

National retailer is now accounting for 50+% of the products sales. They have the manufacturer over the proverbial barrel. National retailer goes back to the manufacturer and grinds them for more margin including lower price, freight allowances, advertising allowances, and catalog costs.

Manufacturer suffers more financial strain and again looks for more ways to cut cost of goods . Quality and ability to deliver are negatively effected. National retailer decides they cannot rely upon manufacturer and "Knocks-off" the product. National retailer private-labels the item eliminating the manufacturer and the delivery chain.

Consumers scratch their heads and say,
"They just don't make 'em like they used to..."

[schoonerdog]

After all, testing is testing.

"But that does not explain why Mr. Zhang — who had lead-detecting equipment on his premises, according to Ms. Andres — did not detect the contaminated toys.
“People at Lee Der were never fully able to give an explanation,” she said. “They had testing equipment on site. And they tested before. We don’t know why they didn’t use it” in this case.
Of Lee Der, Ms. Andres said, “Sadly, they just didn’t have an answer.”

[schoonerdog]

So, back to basics I guess. I was going to get a Rocna, but now how can I really trust that the product was tested and made correctly. So, anyone make an anchor that hold about as well as a Rocna, but made in a country where they don't put government inspectors in jail for publicizing safety flaws? You know, in a country where they don't take away your copy of Newsweek to give you their copy of newsweek, the one without any incriminating news of the country, when you enter the airport? A country where just writing this brief piece of script in cruisersforum would land me in a government insane asylum were I writing this in China.

[CAELESTIS]

Originally Posted by Therapy

OH YEA.

Looks good.

Best price I have seen yet.

I wish I could buy a cute little one for the dingy don't you?

That is called a Rocna 4!

[s/v Jedi]

Schoonerdog: what's all that? you better fall in line because the world-market will be at the mercy of China before you know it. And every country has it's things... in the US kids get to eat nice hormone laced meats that are outlawed in the EU and then wonder why 12-year old kids are mother already or kill half a school... but I'll buy something for the boat that's made in the US anyway when I think it's good. So why wouldn't you buy a good anchor when it is made in China?

cheers,
Nick.

[motion30]

Originally Posted by schoonerdog

So, back to basics I guess. I was going to get a Rocna, but now how can I really trust that the product was tested and made correctly. So, anyone make an anchor that hold about as well as a Rocna, but made in a country where they don't put government inspectors in jail for publicizing safety flaws? You know, in a country where they don't take away your copy of Newsweek to give you their copy of newsweek, the one without any incriminating news of the country, when you enter the airport? A country where just writing this brief piece of script in cruisersforum would land me in a government insane asylum were I writing this in China.

Manson supreme