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Firehoser75 · 22-05-2009, 18:31

GMac,
No offense taken at all. Just added the post to hopefully better explain the situation. I agree about the anchoring forums, especially when discussing the pros and cons of the various brands and types. Some people get very passionate! Personally, I am waiting for someone to invent the Binford 7000. Now that will be some anchor!!

I am sure it will be much superior to the Sonic Beam Bottom Grabber (which could be a great backup).
Cheers,
Tom

Charlie · 22-05-2009, 19:51

Just watch out for the Earth Suck 2100. It is a hydraulic anchor that on top of having an excellent holding profile creates a vaccum and attaches itself to the bottom. My bet is it will be the best anchor in no time.

landonshaw · 31-05-2009, 06:42

I have been reading the previous thread and much of it is useful, some not.
I am looking to buy a Rocna and after reviewing the size charts I have a quesiton:
I have a 33' 4.8 Ton displacement monohaul
the chart shows to use Rocna Model / Boat Disp
10 / 4 , 15 / 8 , 20 / 14 , 25 / 25
Readingt he fine print if your boat falls above the recommended disp, use the next size up. I think I have also heard in this tread to use one up from that if it fits. I would pick a Rocna 15 by chart, previous comments say use a Rocna 20. I will use this in normal crusing and hurricane holding with other gear. Thoughts?

Intentional Drifter · 31-05-2009, 07:20

Another cruising season done, many anchoring situations encountered, including a night of 35 knots blowing and a few others in the 25 to 30 range. The Rocna 33 (on a St Francis 44 cat) set the first time, every time. Always stayed set, even in some pretty good tidal shifts. No dragging, no worries.

It remains one of the best purchases I've made for the boat. Ugly? Yes, it is. Expensive? That, too. Effective? Definitely. No regrets on that buy.

ID

Steve Pope · 31-05-2009, 14:27

Landonshaw, A Rocna 20 would be huge for your boat, a 15 would be more than adequate.
Suggest that before you buy you consider the Manson Supreme, apples for apples they are the same with the Manson being considerably cheaper. Also you know where it has been manufactured. NZ. Either way you will have an excellent anchor.

landonshaw · 31-05-2009, 15:57

Thanks for the help Steve. I'll look at the both before ordering.

GMac · 31-05-2009, 16:29

I agree with Steve, 15kg max. Same comment about the Supreme as Steve made as well. A 25lber one of those would be sweet. Anything bigger is just a waste. I'm only running a 9.5kg on a 3000kg 32fter and been thru 50kts plus with zero worries. Actually mines only 4.5kg as it's the alloy version of that design but still no worries.

If you're big heavy windage and a offshore cruiser and in between sizes, yes use the bigger one. The rest can probably use the smaller size. A couple of the newer designs sizing charts do show sizing bigger than what most would actually need.

Which is a big part of why many suddenly have far superior holding, they have gone from 'average old school' to 'Big new gen'. Performance wise the new designs are far better when talking equal weight equivalents and to up size the weight at the same time means of course people are hanging far better.

ID for example, a 33 on a 44, even a Cat, is a big anchor. He's not going no where now

Just out of interest, what did you have before ID ?

Bash · 31-05-2009, 17:00

Realize that the Rocna chart already factors for storm conditions. When I compare the Rocna recommendations for my boat to the Delta chart, Rocna suggests a significantly heavier anchor even though their hook has greater holding power than the Delta. So the overkill factor is already there on the chart.

One other thing to consider might be how much weight your windlass can handle. Raising an oversize Rocna could be a tough chore for some windlasses.

GMac · 31-05-2009, 17:31

The Delta chart is for winds all the way up to the howling level of 30kts

The thing about all new gen anchors if oversized, if you bury it well can you get it back? Some have already found they can't or at least can't quickly. Something newish in anchoring to be aware of.

SailFastTri · 31-05-2009, 17:43

They are very comparable in performance. Considerations are many -- not the least of which is price. As one who owns a Manson 35 and Rocna 44 (20kg) some of my observations follow:

1) The shank on the Manson is higher and so is the hoop (for equal weight) -- that might be a mounting consideration. The shank on the Rocna is longer. Contrary to Rocna's claims, the Manson slot ADDS an extra piece of metal to the shank and I seriously doubt it would weaken it (in any event it seems quite strong enough for the task). Because of the lower height of the Rocna and mounting considerations (interference with my sprit) I was able to use a 44 pound Rocna vs. the max size Manson I could fit was the 35 lb. (Otherwise I think the Manson is a better value and would not have bought the Rocna).

2) The point on the Manson is elongated and much sharper. Logically, that would make it better at penetrating weeds or other difficult bottom. However that has not been a problem with the Rocna... in my limited experience neither has failed to penetrate grass or weed, or hard-pack bottom.

3) The galvanizing on my Manson is better than the Rocna, and I can see no difference in weld quality. After one year I have a few small spots of rust appearing on edges of the Rocna vs. the Manson which has no rust after 3 years, other than where I drilled it for a retaining pin (2 years of use, 3rd year it was only stowed as a backup). Use for both was about equal per-year.

4) There is a slight bend upward in the aft end of the Rocna blade that the Manson doesn't have. Rocna says this adds holding power under extreme pull. The Manson never dragged in my experience so I can't verify. Either of these anchors is better than anything else I have ever owned; including Delta, Aluminum Spade, Fortress, and Danforth HT.

Neither has dragged or failed to set well upon deployment. I don't have the time or inclination or equipment to test the limits, and I haven't found them with either anchor. I hope I don't find them the hard way, which is why I went with the largest size I could mount, regardless of the serious difference in price of the Rocna.

It is my understanding Manson makes them themselves in New Zealand, while Rocna outsources production.

Bash · 31-05-2009, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMac

The Delta chart is for winds all the way up to the howling level of 30kts

For a given boat, Delta will recommend a 20 kg anchor and Rocna will recommend a 25. One has to ask why Delta (and others, of course) would recommend an anchor that won't hold in a blow.

I suspect that the answer is the huge number of anchors Delta is selling as OEM equipment on production boats. They've been speked on Hunters, Catalinas, Beneteaus and..... In short, the manufacturers don't want to hear that they have to supply any more anchor than the minumum required to advertise a "sail away" package.

Extemporaneous · 31-05-2009, 18:33

Right now I've had a 33kg Rocna brought in for me without the promise to purchase. I was going to go with the 25kg (and still might) but because of my bowsprit (tubing in a U shape) and my anchor roller being within it, I thought the larger may fit better. The hoop on the Rocna has to come up in front of the bowsprit which works better if the space between the hoop and the crank in the shank is greater. The 33kg does fit, but I'm thinking if the 25kg fit, I would likly go with that.
Having said that, I would hate to ask my supplier to bring a 25kg in when I could likly make the call if I had proper drawings. I can't find proper drawing on the Rocna site.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Extemp.

SailFastTri · 31-05-2009, 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extemporaneous

Right now I've had a 33kg Rocna brought in for me without the promise to purchase. I was going to go with the 25kg (and still might) but because of my bowsprit (tubing in a U shape) and my anchor roller being within it, I thought the larger may fit better. The hoop on the Rocna has to come up in front of the bowsprit which works better if the space between the hoop and the crank in the shank is greater. The 33kg does fit, but I'm thinking if the 25kg fit, I would likly go with that.
Having said that, I would hate to ask my supplier to bring a 25kg in when I could likly make the call if I had proper drawings. I can't find proper drawing on the Rocna site.

Anyone?

Thanks,
Extemp.

You can find dimensions info for the Rocna here:
www.rocna.com/distributable/patterns
Including full size side profile patterns of each size.

BlueSovereign · 31-05-2009, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Pope

Landonshaw, A Rocna 20 would be huge for your boat, a 15 would be more than adequate.
Suggest that before you buy you consider the Manson Supreme, apples for apples they are the same with the Manson being considerably cheaper. Also you know where it has been manufactured. NZ. Either way you will have an excellent anchor.

Hey Steve, are you still getting a commision in "past the expiration date Lion Reds", every time time you make a Manson Supreme sale???