Total anchor length to carry in the Med

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Carrying enough chain can be a challenge on small boats and it is rare to need more than 30m. BUT when you need it you really do need it! A good compromise is 30-40 m but go up one size so you still have plenty of weight. Then have a separately stowed road with 10-15m lighter chain and 50m 8 plait. This should give enough chain weight to hold in rough conditions and a long enough rode for deep water while ensuring that only chain is on the bottom.

I thought the forum accepted that extra weight in the chain didn't work when you really needed it?

Are you suggesting the separate rode with 10-15m lighter chain for the rough conditions?

[rslifkin]

Personally, I'd go with as much chain as you determine necessary for the areas you're in. Or as much as you can handle weight-wise. And then add rope behind that until you have 300+ feet or you can't fit more in the locker without issues.

[Clivevon]

"Also keep in mind you will be "med" mooring most of the time with anchor set out front and backing into a slip or land. [/I]You should bring at least 300' of stout line (150' for each side of your transom) for backing into the landing you will med moor in.[/I]"
I don't recognise why you would need all this line each side of your transom but I only ever berthed around Spain & Portugal. There would (almost) always be a heavy ground chain with lazy lines attached so you didnt use an anchor at all. See this:
https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/e-...20the%20seabed.
I have no personal experience of the antics they might get up to in Greece or Turkey.
Some boats (like mine) don't go astern all that well. Remember you can always go in bows first & drop your anchor from the stern, which has several advantages - it gives you much more privacy in your cockpit from quayside walkers for a start. If you do use a stern anchor, then Ankorolina webbing anchor rode ( see: https://jimmygreen.com/anchor-warps/...-mooring-lines) with a bit of chain on the end makes life easier - as you wont have an anchor locker at the stern.
If you go in bows to, its useful to carry a stout wooden plank at least 2 metres long to use as a gangplank to get ashore. Its also useful as a fender board against rough harbour walls. Mine lives lashed to my guardwires with the aft end tucked onto the pushpit, where it gets totally forgotten about - until its needed.
If you are going to do a lot of this you might also consider some kind of sturdy pole lashed across your bow cleats, projecting outboard to support the boat end of your gangplank so it is at 90 degrees to the quayside rather than being angled - but we are getting a bit esoteric now...

[TrentePieds]

Modern:

The necessary length of rode depends rather on where you sail, and just where you intend to set your hook. Since you are in Denmark, let's assume your boat is in Holbæk, and that, by and large, you sail in Isefjorden. That fjord isn't very deep at all - something between 5 metres (17 feet) and 7 metres (25 feet), onto which you can add the rise of water on the flood tides. This very day, if I'm not mistaken, the DIFFERENCE between the lowest tide and the highest is 27 cm (about 11 INCHES) and that is rather typical for inland Danish waters. At Gabet at the mouth of Odense Fjord the difference between low low and high high, this day, is 50 cm or 19 inches.

So assume that you want to have 2 feet (60 cm) under your keel at low low water and the height of your bow roller above the water is 4 feet (120 cm). You say that your draft is 1.4m (55 inches). Then from bow roller to sea bottom at low low tide will be 235 cm (92 inches). At the recommended scope for anchoring in a heavy breeze ["hård blæst" to you :-)] you would need 7 x 92 = 644 inches or 644/12 = 54 feet in total. But spurious accuracy has no place in anchoring. Anchoring is generally a game of "that's close enuff!", so let's simplify things and work in fathoms. A Danish "favn" is six "fod", just like an English "fathom" is six feet. "En favn", like a "fathom", is the distance from fingertip to fingertips when you stretch out your arms. 54 feet is therefore 9 fathoms, or "ni favne".

So to anchor in Isefjord today, in a hard blow, you would want to pay out a total length of rode of 9 fathoms.

For other locations and tide conditions you can just work the math in the manner I did above.

Isefjord, like Odense fjord, is mainly mud on the bottom. Chafe on the ground tackle is not normally much of a concern therefore. Nevertheless having some chain in the rode at the anchor end will help to lay the shank flat on the bottom and give you a better set.

TrentePieds is a tad heavier than your boat at 11,000lbs or about 5,000Kg laden in cruising trim. I sail in water where 10 metres from shore I can have 150 metres of water under the keel so my problems is not really how much rode to pay out - it's finding water skinny enuff to anchor in :-). The rise of water around here from low low to high high may be as much as 16 feet (about 5 metres), so that must be taken into account when calculating the length of rode to carry. I carry 40 fathoms, about 75 metres, of 7/16" (11 mm) three strand nylon rode augmented by 7 fathoms of 5/16" (8 mm) chain next to the anchor. The anchor is a 22lb (10 Kg) Bruce. So far that's done me just fine. I also carry 50 fathoms of 9/16" nylon in a bucket aft with a 10 lb (4.5 kg) Fortress anchor stowed on the monkey rail but not normally shackled on.

Don't know about the Med. But here in the Salish Sea we often do "Med moors" in our remote coves by taking the rode for the stern anchor ashore and tying it to a tree or a heavy log on the beach. "The bower" (the anchor at the bow) is set in the normal fashion as far out as you can conveniently reach with the length of rode you have.

Hope that helps :-)

mvh

TrentePieds

[moseriw]

Doubt yuu ever DID as "should bring at least 300' of stout line (150' for each side of your transom)" is a joke - isn't it? 40' for each line is enough.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Doubt yuu ever DID as "should bring at least 300' of stout line (150' for each side of your transom)" is a joke - isn't it? 40' for each line is enough.

not if tying off to the shore is an activity , you need about 150

[modernviking]

Thanks all! this have been really informative, given a lot of new thoughts and ideas to consider regarding on how the final anchor system is going to be set up

[Tomodore]

Stainless Steel vs Galvanized chain strength
Suncor SS chain from Defender 5/16” WLL 2400lb $14.99 ft
Ketten Walder 8 mm 5/16ish WLL 3420lb $16.58 ft
Acco grade 43 galv. 5/16 from Defender WLL 3900lb $3.04ft

Seems like a lot of boats struggle with anchor locker design, Perhaps an important and sometimes overlooked step in a sea trial before buying a boat is deploying and retrieving the anchor and chain to see if the designers put the emphasis on king size beds or a functional anchor locker. The difference in cost for the stronger cheaper galvanized chain based on 250 feet is $3,385 USD.

[modernviking]

Well then I might be in 'luck' as i need to design and build (with some guidance from the local ship yard) the anchor lock it self

[David B]

Originally Posted by modernviking

Morning all! (or afternoon depend on where you're)
I'm about to fit a proper windlass and some chain with it, but how much is enough chain to store?
The facts:
The boat is a 30 feet long keel, with a draft of 1.4m, she weights around 3.400kg when The anchor's on board an' the cable's all stored.
At the moment i sail in Scandinavia but preparing to go for the Mediterranean with her.
Looking forward to hear from you all!
ModernViking

We sail in the Med, and I am happy that we have 100 metres of chain.
At 7:1, that means a depth of some 13 metres, which is not that great, and at 5:1, some 19 metres. That's getting deep, but even at 8 metres, and 5:1 you will still have half the chain out (all above figures are of course allowing for length of chain from strong-point to windlass, and windlass across deck to water).

On the other hand, you want the chain to fall into your locker without issues, so maybe if you can borrow some chain on top of the chain you have, you can see how much stows in there easily.

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by David B

We sail in the Med, and I am happy that we have 100 metres of chain.
At 7:1, that means a depth of some 13 metres, which is not that great, and at 5:1, some 19 metres. That's getting deep, but even at 8 metres, and 5:1 you will still have half the chain out (all above figures are of course allowing for length of chain from strong-point to windlass, and windlass across deck to water).

On the other hand, you want the chain to fall into your locker without issues, so maybe if you can borrow some chain on top of the chain you have, you can see how much stows in there easily.

I can heartily agree with the sentiment about making sure your rode will fit in the locker as I nearly screwed up with ours. We have 60m of 8mm G70 chain and 45m of 16mm Octoplait on a 2010 Bavaria Cruiser 40. Due to the anchor locker design access to the locker is through a side hatch in the front cabin not the usual top hatch design so flaking it in is not feasible. The 105m just fits in as long as I give everything a wee poke with a big stick. The chain often needs a help to flake in neatly and not bunch up. But I'd rather the slight inconvenience of poking down to have the ability to anchor in deeper water, to let out sufficient rode to secure my home in strong winds or to get in to a secluded cove no one else risks (a bloody big anchor also helps but that's a different thread).

In most anchorages you will be generally letting out 4:1, maybe 5:1. The chances of ever letting out 7:1 with chain are slim and will make you Mr Unpopular as you take up a huge area of real estate in the bay. Even the all rope guys try to avoid 7:1 whenever they can. And remember to calculate your scope as Max Water Depth + Height of Roller above WL and always back down on your anchor to check it is properly holding. Seen too many "lob it over and break open the beers" boats end up drifting backwards through a bay as the breeze picks up.

[moseriw]

Usually you should be fine with 5:1 on 8 m wirth 50m of chain als all charter yachts have. for my own boat I would not do it below 100m but keep in mind that your anchor should be bigger than the given tables. i.e. My boat is 20 tons the tables say 27 kgs and I bought a 42 kgs anchor. the bigger and heavier the better.

Check your windlass! the weight of the chain and anchor on i.e 16m for my boat it 88 kgs and the limit for the tigres 1500W - to be on the safe side.

[kas_1611]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Usually you should be fine with 5:1 on 8 m wirth 50m of chain als all charter yachts have. for my own boat I would not do it below 100m but keep in mind that your anchor should be bigger than the given tables. i.e. My boat is 20 tons the tables say 27 kgs and I bought a 42 kgs anchor. the bigger and heavier the better.

Check your windlass! the weight of the chain and anchor on i.e 16m for my boat it 88 kgs and the limit for the tigres 1500W - to be on the safe side.

I carry a 33kg anchor on my G70 8mm which equates to a 17kg increase over the original (underweight in my opinion) 16kg Delta. As the anchor is buoyed by seawater until the final 1.5m of lift my 1000W windlass manages fine with no strain or slippages. It occasionally whinges if the Vulcan is deeply buried in mud but then I get the Admiral to pop the boat in reverse to pull the anchor up as we are normally 1:1 at that point (and yes the 33kg Vulcan does hold at 1:1!!)

Is that 8m water depth or is it 6.5m water plus 1.5m to the bow roller? And have you factored in any tide (not that we have much in the Med)? With 40m of rode down you'd still be safe as 8m+1.5m+0.5m (water+roller+tide) you are still at 4:1 rather than 5:1. Then add in a couple of meters for your snubber.

[rslifkin]

I can confirm the big Vulcans take some work to retrieve if buried deep enough in mud. It's not as bad as the Fortress fight, but definitely be ready to pull it in to 1:1, snub the chain and wait if there's a bit of wave action or boat wakes. If it's calm, pull backwards or forwards on it. Sometimes you have to un-snub, tighten up the chain again and repeat if it's buried deep enough.

The key is that unlike some designs (like a Fortress) where you have to basically rip it out of the mud, with a 1:1 scope and some pulling, it will eventually dig its way up to the surface of the mud.

Windlass weight wise, look at the weight ratings, not the motor wattage. A small motor will slow gearing can pull just as much weight as a big motor with fast gearing, it'll just take longer. Generally, unless the manufacturer says otherwise, 25% of max pull is a safe working load figure. So plan to stay under that 25% mark for total chain + anchor weight (to ensure retrieval if deployed in very deep water).

[Anders]

Originally Posted by moseriw

Doubt yuu ever DID as "should bring at least 300' of stout line (150' for each side of your transom)" is a joke - isn't it? 40' for each line is enough.

That's enough when going on a quay but we have two 40m ropes for when we anchor in a bay with ropes to the shore and I often have to extend them with mooring ropes to reach the shore.