Upgrading to a Smaller Anchor

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Panope

I reckon that a light sleeper might do fine with smaller gear as they will be woken by the slightest change.

Myself, I sleep like death no matter what. I'd likely sleep through the anchor drag alarm (gps signals wont pass through aluminum - must place phone in pilothouse) and only be woken by the boat grinding away on the cliff walls.....

A remote GPS sensor might be in your future. The Garmin GLO 2 works great. Bluetooth to phone. My Android phone with Anchor Lite works great with it.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

It's not about making anchoring easier. It's about keeping your boat safe.

My two cents would be to stick with the Rocna.

LittleWing77

What I am happy to see is that this conversation has gone beyond the typical mantra that "bigger is better, without limit, get the biggest you can fit..."

Now we are considering acceptable weights and we are recognizing that there is a safety factor involved, so a balance between the considerations must be found.

For reasons of handling the ground tackle without a windlass, and to keep the boat light and weight off the bow, keeping the weight down is valuable. But for an extra margin of safety...a bigger anchor gives that.

But there is a limit to how much "extra safety" is worth the extra weight. As the OP stated, dragging isn't the end of the world, if you are awake to deal with it. I would solve the GPS problem so that your anchor alarm works if you have that issue; that is critical, in my way of thinking. I don't set my alarm all the time, but if there is wind or any other reason to be concerned, I do. I think you need this regardless of how big your anchor is.

So, if you have an anchor that works, and you feel secure with it, and you have a good anchor alarm, by all means upgrade to a new tech, and I would not go lighter for your sized vessel, but 15kg could be fine, and I would consider the 20kg anchor, especially if it is one of the new technology (as long as it fits).

I think that 15kg or 20kg are good compromises for your vessel.

[kmacdonald]

Great answer Wingssail. The "bigger is better" philosophy needs to give way to other variables. It is good to see the "big enough to do the job" crowd come out of the closet.

[Training Wheels]

As we also don’t have a windlass, we use an aluminum Spade. Would also consider the aluminum Excel.

[tarian]

When considering my new anchor as an aspie I delved into this greatly and did plenty of research from the professionals to the forums to the youtubers
I contacted Knox anchors , who is now deceased but has tested and written about anchors all his sailing life and this was his recommendation to me
My boat was marginal at a 20 kg anchor , but as I would be cruising and entering many seas and different anchorages go for the next size up, this will give you better holding and a safety margin as you can then anchor in all substrates and conditions
Well i did Just that , I never bought the Knox anchor as a Scot I am tight and went for the 25kg Rocna , I have anchored in all substrates , apart from coral (why would i) and I have been in some nasty weather, I have been bounced about swayed side to side and even had my solar panels rip off , never dragged once. ofc there are other stories of how mighty other people's anchors are but I listened to the professionals and my own research over 2 years and went the next size up .
I do not seek the most sheltered bays or run when a storm comes in, I generally am happy to wait it out on Anchor. thats just me .

[SV__Grace]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

When replacing an older CQR or Delta anchor with a new generation anchor should you get a lighter new gen since they work so much better? If so, how much smaller?

since you like plows I'd recommend a Sarca Excel sized for your boat as the best new gen version of a plow that I've experienced.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by tarian

When considering my new anchor as an aspie I delved into this greatly and did plenty of research from the professionals to the forums to the youtubers
I contacted Knox anchors , who is now deceased but has tested and written about anchors all his sailing life and this was his recommendation to me
My boat was marginal at a 20 kg anchor , but as I would be cruising and entering many seas and different anchorages go for the next size up, this will give you better holding and a safety margin as you can then anchor in all substrates and conditions
Well i did Just that , I never bought the Knox anchor as a Scot I am tight and went for the 25kg Rocna , I have anchored in all substrates , apart from coral (why would i) and I have been in some nasty weather, I have been bounced about swayed side to side and even had my solar panels rip off , never dragged once. ofc there are other stories of how mighty other people's anchors are but I listened to the professionals and my own research over 2 years and went the next size up .
I do not seek the most sheltered bays or run when a storm comes in, I generally am happy to wait it out on Anchor. thats just me .

25kg is Rocnas suggested size for your boat. It's not over sized. If you had a 20 kg Rocna I bet you would be saying the same thing--------never dragged once.

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

Just go with the new anchor manufacturer’s recommendations. It is irrelevant what size your old anchor was. If you anticipate anchoring in conditions with very strong winds and short scope, you may increment the recommended size, but in my experience it is not needed. In a muddy PNW bottoms, Rocna sized according to the manufacturer’s specifications held at 1.7:1 scope when backing up at 2500 RPM (45 hp Yanmar, 2.35 transmission ratio) in my tests, which should be similar to the force of 50-55 kn wind. That was a 60 feet of chain in 35 feet of water, so technically, the scope was even shorter accounting for the distance from the water to the bow roller. I am guessing, it should hold with the wind in excess of 100 kn with a proper scope in a similar bottom.

Interesting comment. I agree with the initial comment but did you use a strain gauge to compare the relative loads? In my experience using a load tester I could only achieve comparable loads by taking a run at it. And I have an Autoprop which is much better at achieving this than non-self pitching props.

Jim sv Gaia

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by wingssail

What I am happy to see is that this conversation has gone beyond the typical mantra that "bigger is better, without limit, get the biggest you can fit..."

I don't know anyone who has made this suggestion. What most cruisers say is to get the largest anchor that your boat and its systems can reasonably* manage. In other words, maximize your holding without compromising your ability to retrieve, or indeed launch, the gear.

(*reasonable = without having to resort to heroic efforts to store, launch or retrieve.)

For those without a windlass, this will obviously put a pretty clear upper limit on anchor gear (anchor and rode). My previous boat had no windlass, and I found I was limited to a 35# anchor with about 50' of chain.

My current can manage much more, which is good because it is much more boat. These things tends to move in lock-step. Larger boat usually means stouter anchoring systems (windlass, roller, holders, chocks, cleats, etc.).

The only reason to go smaller is because that's what your anchor system demands, or because you are so certain of your anchoring location that you can refine your need very exactly. Most cruisers who visit different areas have to anchor in a wide variety of conditions, many of which are only partially known. This is why maximizing your anchor system only makes sense. But if you're anchoring in the same place, in the same conditions, all the time, then you can refine your anchor system choice to match exactly.

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

It's really not that simple. There are other variables at play, at least in my mind. Anchor retrieval ease happens to be second on my list. In my case, dragging isn't usually a catastrophic event with the muddy bottom of the Chesapeake. When I go to Maine I might consider a bigger or different anchor.

Okay, well, you know best!

LittleWing77

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Okay, well, you know best!

Best of luck anchoring in the Chesapeake,
LittleWing77

He should be fine anchoring in the Chesapeake with his CQR, but if it's heavy and he has no windlass that could be a pain.

I had to move again last night at 9:45 pm and it was a PITA especially dealing with the mud on the anchor and chain in the dark and trying not to dirty up the entire boat.

My CQR is only 20 lbs but pulling the boat around with it with winds near 15 knots is still work..........but a good workout as well but you have to be careful with back position

[SteveSadler]

Size matters. Modern anchors hold in a wider range of bottoms such as weeds, thin sand, rocks, but in soft sand, mud, or short scope the surface area matters most.

[zstine]

I hear "the boat doesn't care how big the anchor is" that's ignorance. While a full keel heavy cruiser may not show much change going from 44lb to 60lb, in most modern lighter fin keel boats it does matter, especially in comfort in a seaway. When i changed my rope for chain and added a windlass my bow dropped by over 2inches! It was very very noticeable in how she sailed... but after adding solar panels and an aux diesel tank aft I was back level, though the weight still shows.

Weight on the bow is the worst place for it.

[Cheechako]

Maybe vs a CQR, but a Delta is pretty good in a straight pull I think. But nah, keep it heavy.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by zstine

I hear "the boat doesn't care how big the anchor is" that's ignorance. While a full keel heavy cruiser may not show much change going from 44lb to 60lb, in most modern lighter fin keel boats it does matter, especially in comfort in a seaway. When i changed my rope for chain and added a windlass my bow dropped by over 2inches! It was very very noticeable in how she sailed... but after adding solar panels and an aux diesel tank aft I was back level, though the weight still shows.

Weight on the bow is the worst place for it.

That's my quote. Are talking about me? Or more of a general "people"?

Steve