Upgrading to a Smaller Anchor

[kmacdonald]

opc orn:

[Elie]

In my opinion, weight is just a less significant variable than fluke area. My Spade anchor has to be heavier that for exemple a Rocna since it carrie a significant lead 'balast on its nose, while the rockna use a different technique(an arche) to force de burial of the anchor. Once the anchor is set however, the holding is only dependant on the proportional of the area buried . Therefore at same weight Anchors the larger area has to be the one not ballasted. So For exemple a Fortress with its large but lighter flukes has a much greater holkding power ... Once set. So the two main variables need to be taken into account when choosing an anchor. All said, in my opinion, the heavier the better in a blow...

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by Gaia

Interesting comment. I agree with the initial comment but did you use a strain gauge to compare the relative loads? In my experience using a load tester I could only achieve comparable loads by taking a run at it. And I have an Autoprop which is much better at achieving this than non-self pitching props.

Jim sv Gaia

No, I did not use a strain gauge. Wind speed is a crude estimate. I do reach 7.5 knots at 2500 RPM in forward gear, so the force on anchor rode should be substantial. Not sure how much less in reverse, though. I do have a fixed blades propeller.

[Cynara]

If the new anchor is better than the old you would be defeating the purpose of the new anchor. What would be your actual savings.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Cynara

If the new anchor is better than the old you would be defeating the purpose of the new anchor. What would be your actual savings.

Anchoring threads are so much fun.
Uhh... a smaller anchor is lighter and smaller. This matters if you are

hauling by hand (no windlass) and strugling to raise your heavy rock (CQR). He can get equal or better performance one size down. In fact, I'm quite sure an alloy Excel would outperform a CQR at 2-2.5 times the weight in sand or mud (yes, I've used load cells). Faster setting and much faster resetting.


That said, for cruisers there are really good arguments for an anchor that holds, and most people would rather match the weight and enjoy the increased security.


There are two groups that need to look at minimum ground tackle weight:
* Pure racers. Some day sailors. Alloy anchors and very (none?) little chain.

* Cruisers with no windlass. Any workable solution will be a compromise, and the sailing area should be carefully considered. Two anchors can make more sense not because it is better but because sometimes it is easier to handle. I once long distance cruised a non-windlass boat while I was having terrible back problems (thankfully gone now), and anything heavier than 12 pounds with minimal chain wasn't worth the risk. It was easier to lay two light anchors, if need be. Some people can haul 70 pounds of iron with ease, some can't, don't judge.



If you have a windlass and a heavy boat, pile it on. I loved chain and a big anchor on my last boat. Just push a button.

[CarlF]

Thinwater is right to bring up resetting not just straight pull. I used a CQR for over 10 years when that was about all there was. Well dug in with 7:1 scope in a good bottom it holds great - until the 3AM wind change when it doesn’t reset. If the wind never changed, I might still be using a CQR.

I wouldn’t “downsize” - there are just too many variables when anchoring.

If I didn’t have a windlass and wanted to lighten, I’d take a hard look at a Spade (even aluminum) over a roll bar anchor since they can frequently bring 30lbs of bottom up with them.

And if still using BBB chain, I’d go to g43 and go down a size to make hauling easier.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Cynara

If the new anchor is better than the old you would be defeating the purpose of the new anchor. What would be your actual savings.

The OP expressed in his first post his interest in having a lighter anchor. So reducing the weight would be his savings.

I myself don't recommend going to a lighter anchor for the OP, but we all should start thinking outside of the box. "Bigger and heavier" has gotten to be such a mantra that wishing for less weight is incomprehensible to the point of going right over our heads; it doesn't even register. It should.

I do believe that an anchor should be the right size to get the job done, no more.

[thlamers]

Our best anchor is a modified CQR, originally a 25# which always held once set but was slow setting and could invert in soft mud thereby refusing to set at all. Two changes have made it our favorite:
First was to have welder build up the dorsal ridge and sharpen it to a knife-like edge. This is the part of the plow which is actually trying to dig in as it skids along during the setting process. This new sharper edge changed the "setting trail" from a few feet to just inches. Resetting improved similarly.

Second was to take a page from the "Hydrobubble" design. 2" thick rigid foam "cheeks" about 10" long were epoxied and glassed to each side of the shank, as close to the hinge as possible adding a few pounds of buoyancy in this area. This ended the inverting problem and also raises the shank slightly on harder bottoms, further improving the setting characteristics.

This design would further benefit from a sealed tubular shank in place of the solid "I" beam reducing overall anchor weight and improving weight distribution.
We still keep a Bruce aboard for really difficult bottoms. When a Bruce is trying to set almost its entire weight is resting on the two sharp flukes touching the bottom. This desirable feature is unequaled among the newer anchors but ours has dragged when highly loaded.

[Elleroo]

Anchor 'discussions' are always interesting, and always subjective to the writer.


Weight is always the main bone of contention, and an old man put this to me over 50 years ago.....


You come into an anchorage, and there are moorings for large yachts available, or you can use your anchor.


Which do you choose?


Everyone will choose the mooring every time.


So, your anchor needs to be as close to the characteristics of a mooring as you can get. Heavy and holds tight in all weathers. I'll leave the thinking to you.


On the 'no windlass' situation, I taught offshore sailing for years, on 40ft boats with no windlass. The safe solution is to run the warp back to a winch. If all chain, then a claw chain hook on a length of line that runs from the bow to stern, and use a winch. Sometimes in deep anchorages you'll need to pull the anchor up in stages, securing at each change and reset of the claw hook. But, this saves on back injuries. I've had the torn muscles!


Cheers, Rod.

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by chris95040

If you already have the gear to handle a particular weight of anchor, why go lighter?


Going from CQR of weight X to a next-gen of lesser weight, I don’t think anybody here can say anything conclusive about that.

We drug our CQR 35 lb in just about every anchorage from Brownsville Texas to Cutler Maine. Went to a Fortress 23 ( which does not weigh 23 lbs.- more like about 14) and in 18 years only drug once in comparable conditions - when it was fouled by a piece of sheet metal, in Galveston.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I have a couple of those. They are great until the wind changes direction.

That's why I always put both mine (Danforths) down, bow and stern.
If I'm getting blown broadside I go out, walk the stern rode to the bow, the boat swings to the breeze and I go back to sleep.

[Mr B]

I find it truly amazing that putting an extra 20 or 30 Lbs on the bow with a bigger anchor will Chronically effect the sailing capabilities of a boat,

But two or three people extra on board, doesnt, Thats 140 Lbs minimum per person,

I made my own anchor because I was sick of the ones I had dragging, 40 KGs,
It held rock solid, I dropped it in the water doing 9 knots, It near pulled the anchor cleat off the boat, But it stopped me dead, I had no motor, The uni joint had carked it, The Marina staff would not come out to get me as the wind was well over 20 knots,
It was better than running aground,
I was at the end of the Marina channel, So half a mile from my Berth,
I had also missed the mooring ball on the way past,

But with no windlass, It was just too heavy to pull up by hand,
So I made another one, 24 Kgs, Plus chain, It was easy to pull up by hand, It also held rock solid in 20 knot winds and above,

I still have both on my bow, The big one to be used in anger when its needed,
To change anchors, I just swap the D shackle from one anchor to the other,
I have two bow spits for them Side by side,

Quite a bit of my design came from watching Panope's video's, and others,
If it can stop my car in Compacted crushed rock, It should stop my boat in the ocean,
Which they both do,
I sleep at night now, My anchors work,

Cheers, Brian,

[reflectionsv37]

A couple years ago I replaced a 20kg Delta with a 20kg Rocna. The Delta was very ineffective in soft mud. The Rocna has proved to be far superior but will still "slip" in soft mud making for restless nights. If I were to do it again, I'd have gone with the 25kg Rocna since it would have also fit the existing bow roller. I may upgrade anyway if I find someone who wants a 20kg Rocna.

I certainly wouldn't recommend you downsize.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Maybe that's why everyone says a new gen is better, it might just be the size difference if they are buying bigger.
I have a Rocna 15kg on the bow now but might try a Manson 10kg with a foot or two of 1/4" chain to make anchoring easier.

This man is a troll.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Panope

I reckon that a light sleeper might do fine with smaller gear as they will be woken by the slightest change.

Myself, I sleep like death no matter what. I'd likely sleep through the anchor drag alarm (gps signals wont pass through aluminum - must place phone in pilothouse) and only be woken by the boat grinding away on the cliff walls.....

Nice boat you have, BTW I find your anchor tests very helpfull indeed.
Keep away from rock walls.