Upgrading to a Smaller Anchor

[SteveSadler]

I agree with weight frwd is to be avoided, but anchor weight is not where you compromise. A lot of cruisers stow 100 meters of oversized chain frwd but my boat came with 50m and I carry 7/8" nylon rode for those times I need to anchor in 100'. In the last 6 yrs of 17+k miles of living on a hook, I've never used it. Another 50 m of chain will affect the pitching motion going to weather considerably, but since we have only beat for 600 miles to Galapagos and a few other short beats, it takes a back seat to safety. But still, no matter how big and how much chain, if it isn't properly set, it will drag. Better use your alarm daily.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by reflectionsv37

A couple years ago I replaced a 20kg Delta with a 20kg Rocna. The Delta was very ineffective in soft mud. The Rocna has proved to be far superior but will still "slip" in soft mud making for restless nights. If I were to do it again, I'd have gone with the 25kg Rocna since it would have also fit the existing bow roller. I may upgrade anyway if I find someone who wants a 20kg Rocna.

I certainly wouldn't recommend you downsize.

Been there done that, Delta to Rocna, both with the same results as yourself, thence to Excel, doesn't drag (not to date ). Same locations, I have found the Excel to be substantially better.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Great points Steve. I guess it comes down to how well you sleep at night. I don't have a windlass so that's the main reason I like to go light. I also like to keep the boat as light as possible and every pound counts.

For the difference between 15kg and 10kg, you wish to put at risk your safety, and the safety of other vessels around you?

We twice ended on reefs because of an undersized anchor.

Going lighter on a boat as your motivation to reduce safety is same as dropping food and water rations for the sake of weight gain.

A proper anchor at 5kg more does not seem that important, until you find your vessel on a reef or any other spot at night.

It is not about penny wise and pound foolish, it is weight 'wise' and pound foolish.

Post like this make me worry as to sea savviness.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

opc orn:

Yes, let's break out the popcorn, sit back and watch.

[Gerrit Coetzee]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

When replacing an older CQR or Delta anchor with a new generation anchor should you get a lighter new gen since they work so much better? If so, how much smaller?

The post is filled with anomalies: can you 'upgrade' to a smaller thing? That is said in relation to size. Upgrading to the same size with lighter materials could have made sense, Especially when considering the surface area of the anchor.
The restraining force/power of the anchor is the sum of the anchor's weight coupled with the surface area there off. A lighter anchor with bigger surface area should provide sufficient inertia and friction in mud conditions to justify the lesser weight.

Yet the OP request light weight and smaller anchor, scaling down on both the required criteria for a safe set.

A reef anchor was as lightweight as one could go, but with little surface area, and as such utterly useless in mud. There is a correlation between required weight and area for various applications.

Downgrading (not upgrading), is setting yourself up for failure.

[kmacdonald]

It seems a lot of people are using oversized anchors to compensate for poor holding anchorages. A little more care in selecting an anchorage might be the better choice.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

It seems a lot of people are using oversized anchors to compensate for poor holding anchorages. A little more care in selecting an anchorage might be the better choice.

How do you select a better anchorage if you have never been there before and you cant see the bottom due to depth and or murky water, Or its dark,
???????

Its easy if you can see the bottom, You keep moving till you see a good clear bottom, Free of weed, Then drop the anchor,

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Mr B

How do you select a better anchorage if you have never been there before and you cant see the bottom due to depth and or murky water, Or its dark,
???????

Its easy if you can see the bottom, You keep moving till you see a good clear bottom, Free of weed, Then drop the anchor,

Maate, your feeding the troll.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

It seems a lot of people are using oversized anchors to compensate for poor holding anchorages. A little more care in selecting an anchorage might be the better choice.

This is one of the major advantages of oversizing the anchor. It opens up many anchorages that would be otherwise unusable or not suitable as an overnight stop.

The quality of the substrate is often difficult to ascertain (unfortunately, chart notations and cruising guides are often wrong) so a larger anchor also provides a buffer if the substrate assessment is wrong.

Rock is the exception where a larger anchor is not any help, but this can usually be picked when setting the anchor.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by thlamers

Our best anchor is a modified CQR, originally a 25# which always held once set but was slow setting and could invert in soft mud thereby refusing to set at all. Two changes have made it our favorite:
First was to have welder build up the dorsal ridge and sharpen it to a knife-like edge. This is the part of the plow which is actually trying to dig in as it skids along during the setting process. This new sharper edge changed the "setting trail" from a few feet to just inches. Resetting improved similarly.

Second was to take a page from the "Hydrobubble" design. 2" thick rigid foam "cheeks" about 10" long were epoxied and glassed to each side of the shank, as close to the hinge as possible adding a few pounds of buoyancy in this area. This ended the inverting problem and also raises the shank slightly on harder bottoms, further improving the setting characteristics.

This design would further benefit from a sealed tubular shank in place of the solid "I" beam reducing overall anchor weight and improving weight distribution.
We still keep a Bruce aboard for really difficult bottoms. When a Bruce is trying to set almost its entire weight is resting on the two sharp flukes touching the bottom. This desirable feature is unequaled among the newer anchors but ours has dragged when highly loaded.

Interesting! A lot of work on a 25lb cqr when you could get a mantus for a few hundred bucks and be at a whole new level...

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by zstine

I hear "the boat doesn't care how big the anchor is" that's ignorance. While a full keel heavy cruiser may not show much change going from 44lb to 60lb, in most modern lighter fin keel boats it does matter, especially in comfort in a seaway. When i changed my rope for chain and added a windlass my bow dropped by over 2inches! It was very very noticeable in how she sailed... but after adding solar panels and an aux diesel tank aft I was back level, though the weight still shows.



Weight on the bow is the worst place for it.

I don’t know Zach- i think you also have a tartan, which is a performance cruiser. The issue isn’t anchor weight but rode when you add chain. For my boat a 35 lb mantus is undersized and would work, 45 is recommended, and 55 is oversized. I just dont think +/- 10 lbs matters
But.... add 300 lbs of chain in bow- THAT will make a difference

(I have a 55 lb mantus btw. Should really take some of the 200 feet of chain I never seem to use and run it down into bilge if I want to make a difference)

[Mickeyrouse]

Originally Posted by malbert73

But.... add 300 lbs of chain in bow- THAT will make a difference
)

Boy howdy does it. On or in our bow will be found the anchor, the roller, 70 ft. Of 3/8” hi-test chain, an Ideal anchor windless, 200 of 3/4” rode, the battery box....and 4 group 24 batteries. None of which were likely considered in Bill Tripp’s design calculation. She floats on her lines, and there’s no alternate placement option. She sail’s smoothly on a reach or off the wind, but when close hauled in a chop that extra weight gives a motion like a cheap carnival ride. Oh did I mention that’s also where my wife's shoes are stored?

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Elleroo

...You come into an anchorage, and there are moorings for large yachts available, or you can use your anchor.

Which do you choose?

Everyone will choose the mooring every time....

No, not actually.


The ball will bang on the boat if the wind dies.

• I don't know the gear.
• I know my gear.
• If I never drag, then the security is equal. For example, a rock climber that wants safety does not get a larger rope, he buys a good rope and inspects it often. It is strong enough. The difference is in how he uses it.

I never take a mooring if I am allowed to anchor and there is room. I have used moorings.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

It seems a lot of people are using oversized anchors to compensate for poor holding anchorages. A little more care in selecting an anchorage might be the better choice.

Or it might not be a choice, or they may rather carry more ground tackle to have more choices.


But yes, the bottom is a much greater variable than the anchor.

[bensolomon]

Really nice boat!!!

Originally Posted by Panope

I reckon that a light sleeper might do fine with smaller gear as they will be woken by the slightest change.

Myself, I sleep like death no matter what. I'd likely sleep through the anchor drag alarm (gps signals wont pass through aluminum - must place phone in pilothouse) and only be woken by the boat grinding away on the cliff walls.....