Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Yes, They are very similar,

Without having all the details, I can only posit some ideas. Perhaps there are minor variances in the geometry of the two anchors that make one work better than the other in certain conditions.
Also, assuming you used the same thickness plate in both anchors, then 40Kg anchor has higher surface area, for better holding in soft substrates, but 24Kg might concentrate more weight into a smaller 'cutting surface' that enables it to dig into harder substrates more effectively. Or maybe your results are just a fluke. (see what I did there )

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Without having all the details, I can only posit some ideas. Perhaps there are minor variances in the geometry of the two anchors that make one work better than the other in certain conditions.
Also, assuming you used the same thickness plate in both anchors, then 40Kg anchor has higher surface area, for better holding in soft substrates, but 24Kg might concentrate more weight into a smaller 'cutting surface' that enables it to dig into harder substrates more effectively. Or maybe your results are just a fluke. (see what I did there )

Yep, Probably a Fluke,
But they both work better than the Bruce that came with the boat, which didnt,

[soopad00pa]

Just an update to my anchoring and dragging issues.

I've been sailing around south Florida and the Keys for the past few months now and I've been at anchor 99% of the time (one night in a marina, one night on a ball).

30ft catalina, 10kg rocna, 75ft 1/4in chain, plus a buncha line. I'm usually in 6-10ft of water and I usually have room to put out plenty of scope so I tend to run about 1:8 scope.

I hate my rocna. I've been trying to replace it for a month, but the 3 shops I've been able to get to only have more rocnas and deltas.

Most of the time it holds great. Even in a couple of pretty spicy storms, stuck with no issues. But if there's grass...and there's often grass...it's garbage.

I know, I know. Most anchors suck in grass. Well, this is my anchor, so this is the one I hate.

I've had 2 nights where I've dragged (of course, heavy rain, wind from everywhere, boats around, shallows looming) because a gust just yanks the whole floor up and I go sliding across the anchorage at 4kts, dragging my ball of grass and mud, wrapping around my keel, running back and forth from the bow to the helm in my soaked underwear, screaming obscenities at my stupid anchor.

Tonight was one such night and I pulled that damn grasswad up 4 times before I eventually got something to stick. Now I sit here in my soaking wet everything, high on rage and adrenaline, hoping that this time I hit something other than grass.

I do wish I was tucked in a nice hurricane hole, but that wasn't on the agenda. I did put myself behind a chunk of land that would've be great if the wind did what the forecast forecasted. But storms do what storms do and that means they come from the wrong direction, so here I am. Hating my rocna.

1 star. Do not recommend.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by soopad00pa

Just an update to my anchoring and dragging issues.

I've been sailing around south Florida and the Keys for the past few months now and I've been at anchor 99% of the time (one night in a marina, one night on a ball).

30ft catalina, 10kg rocna, 75ft 1/4in chain, plus a buncha line. I'm usually in 6-10ft of water and I usually have room to put out plenty of scope so I tend to run about 1:8 scope.

I hate my rocna. I've been trying to replace it for a month, but the 3 shops I've been able to get to only have more rocnas and deltas.

Most of the time it holds great. Even in a couple of pretty spicy storms, stuck with no issues. But if there's grass...and there's often grass...it's garbage.

I know, I know. Most anchors suck in grass. Well, this is my anchor, so this is the one I hate.

I've had 2 nights where I've dragged (of course, heavy rain, wind from everywhere, boats around, shallows looming) because a gust just yanks the whole floor up and I go sliding across the anchorage at 4kts, dragging my ball of grass and mud, wrapping around my keel, running back and forth from the bow to the helm in my soaked underwear, screaming obscenities at my stupid anchor.

Tonight was one such night and I pulled that damn grasswad up 4 times before I eventually got something to stick. Now I sit here in my soaking wet everything, high on rage and adrenaline, hoping that this time I hit something other than grass.

I do wish I was tucked in a nice hurricane hole, but that wasn't on the agenda. I did put myself behind a chunk of land that would've be great if the wind did what the forecast forecasted. But storms do what storms do and that means they come from the wrong direction, so here I am. Hating my rocna.

1 star. Do not recommend.

Welcome to the club, I was anything but pleased with my Rocna bottom shovel, got rid of it and went to an Excel, have been very happy with it ever since. To be fair it has dragged once, in very soupy mud renowned for its poor holding.

[Karanga]

10kg anchor...?
I wonder if any anchor that size/weight, in those sort of conditions (grassy wads plus stormy winds) would do very well.
But I do sincerely empathise with your frustration. Rant away!

[captstu]

My main anchor on my previous catamaran was a 50 kg Bruce. As you would expect, a 50 kg anything holds quite well. But in grass, it operated in junk mode, just collected junk as it dragged across the bottom.

Eventually another boater came up and said that if I shackled a small Fortress to the Bruce trip point - the hole in the shank where it turns toward the flukes - the Fortress would set the Bruce.

I had a FX-18 so I attached it forward of the Bruce with about 6' of chain. Before entering an anchorage, I drop the Fortress in the water. I use the windless to deploy the Bruce until I feel the Fortress hit bottom, then I back very slowly while laying out the Bruce and Chain. When I stop laying out chain, the boat suddenly stops.

This setup has never dragged, although I did bend the Fortress to destruction when anchored in a hurricane and the wind suddenly shifted causing the boat to travel over the anchor and reset on the recrocrical heading.

Fortress replace all the damaged parts under their amazing warranty. I'm comfortable the same setup would work with your anchor.

[Tetepare]

If your Rocna is pulling up a bed of grass, it’s still working. The bottom failed you.


We have an area like that. Those unfamiliar will anchor and set in what feels like good mud. Problem is the mud is 18” deep over shale. A good blow and they drag. It’s not the anchor, it’s the bottom.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

If your Rocna is pulling up a bed of grass, it’s still working. The bottom failed you.


We have an area like that. Those unfamiliar will anchor and set in what feels like good mud. Problem is the mud is 18” deep over shale. A good blow and they drag. It’s not the anchor, it’s the bottom.

I think that is a common mistake. Folks drag and immediately blame the anchor.

I just bought a Mantus M2 25 lb anchor which I just put onboard in pieces along with the bolts etc which are in a bag.

I'm anchored with my old CQR at the moment, but as huge as that Mantus is I'm sure it will provide lots of holding power being almost 19" wide as compared to the 7"-9" or my 20 lb CQR

[OneBoatman]

Some places aren't well suited for anchoring. A sand and sea grass is among the worst that I've experienced but then I never tried to anchor in kelp. If you see others able to hold nearby you might want to ask them about their tackle. Otherwise the old school for a displacement vessel not using all chain was to deploy about 1lb of anchor/LOA in ft for and similarly ~1ft of chain/LOA in ft. This worked well for me for that past 40 years. It's always a trade off of just how much will fit in your chain locker and of course the wt carried forward. I wouldn't suggest using chain less 5/16" for a Catalina 30, which is a rather chunky 30 footer. If you have to haul by hand I suggest you keep a pair of leather work gloves on board. Keep in mind there were many boats sailing and anchoring successfully in this world carrying only a CQR and before that a Danforth and before that a Navy anchor long before all the anchor gurus came along about 30 yrs ago or so. Today there are many styles so you will get many opinions but that doesn't help much once your boat is dragging.

[soopad00pa]

I know this, logically. But it doesn't stop the hate from flowing in the moment. I'm no jedi.

I have read that roll bar designs are poor at clearing once they're jammed. When I am able to find another, bigger anchor, it won't be a roll bar.


10kg is what rocna's chart 'recommends' but I definitely am going up a size. In another design. Someday.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I think that is a common mistake. Folks drag and immediately blame the anchor.

Agreed. I love when I get funny looks from the trailer boat crowd while setting an anchor. They always look very confused about why my engines are still running, let alone in gear after the anchor is down. In my mind, if I haven't given the anchor a good pull (30+ kts of wind worth of force) with the engines, I don't trust what's going on down here. And realistically, doing that isn't to set the anchor as it'll do that on its own. It's more to test the bottom and confirm that the anchor was dropped on a surface where it can set and hold.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by soopad00pa

I know this, logically. But it doesn't stop the hate from flowing in the moment. I'm no jedi.

I have read that roll bar designs are poor at clearing once they're jammed. When I am able to find another, bigger anchor, it won't be a roll bar.


10kg is what rocna's chart 'recommends' but I definitely am going up a size. In another design. Someday.

Panope’s compilation video some years ago rated Spade highest, Mantus second. He may have revised after more testing.

[SV__Grace]

Rocna is a great anchor with only ONE weakness, the roll bar, which can get fouled and prevent resetting or diving deep.

Spade and Excel are both excellent, the two top rated anchors based upon lots of tests and testers. They don't have roll bars.

A heavier anchor will set faster, more reliably, and dig deeper than a lighter anchor, so if you live on the hook as we do, get the biggest, baddest anchor your boat can accommodate. We have an Excel that is 2 sizes up from the minimum our boat needs and the tip is sharp and curved downward slightly to dig fast and deep, even in grass.

Assuming you had enough scope out, my bet is that your roll bar got fouled. I'd be curious if it would have dug in deeper with more scope, which you can try next time.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by soopad00pa

30ft catalina, 10kg rocna, 75ft 1/4in chain, plus a buncha line. I'm usually in 6-10ft of water and I usually have room to put out plenty of scope so I tend to run about 1:8 scope.

I don't think you have enough or heavy enough chain. Recommend at least 100' of 5/16".

If you haven't already done so, take a chance at winning some mantus bucks and get yourself a mantus: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...-a-264247.html

The M1 is a roll-bar anchor, but the roll-bar is smaller-diameter bar at a larger circumference of hoop, so is less likely to ball up, compared to the Rocna. The tip is also sharper and given a slightly more aggressive angle. In tests it tends to do relatively well in grass.

That said, I'm happy with the performance of my Rocna, but I don't skimp on laying out lots of 3/8" chain.

[soopad00pa]

I back down pretty hard on my anchor. Hard enough that I've def pulled up balls of grass when anchoring.

I'm usually running about 1-8 scope cuz I usually have room. If it's really shallow, often 1-10 cuz what's an extra 20ft. This means, if I'm in 8ft or less, it's almost all chain out. Tonight I'm in 5ft of water at low tide. I just call it 10ft with my bow height and the tide shift and I put out all 75 of chain, plus another 10ft of line for a 1-8 scope. I'd have made it an even 100, but I have company nearby tonight.

I definitely signed up for the Mantus giveaway, so fingers crossed. But I'll likely end up with a15kg vulcan. Panope's tests showed pretty good performance and I have seen them in stores. Just not this far down.