Upsizing anchor - suggestions?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Why do you say cheap stuff.

A 35 lb CQR at the used sailboat supply store here is going for $225.

They worked fine for many years and still work fine.

I have seen the type though that like to put shiny new anchors on their old boats when they buy them though.

I guy got rid of a heavy Bruse for a small chrome CQR knock-off here recently.

You actually just summed up the problem with the CQR. It's not even a question of how good or not one is. It's that for the prices they sell for (especially new), you can usually buy a better anchor. If a better anchor is the same price or only a little more, it no longer matters if the CQR is good enough.



I don't get the people who will pay more for shiny (like a stainless anchor) without any functional improvement to go with it. If I were going to spend 3 times as much on an anchor, I'd rather just buy 3 and have spares...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

You actually just summed up the problem with the CQR. It's not even a question of how good or not one is. It's that for the prices they sell for (especially new), you can usually buy a better anchor. If a better anchor is the same price or only a little more, it no longer matters if the CQR is good enough.



I don't get the people who will pay more for shiny (like a stainless anchor) without any functional improvement to go with it. If I were going to spend 3 times as much on an anchor, I'd rather just buy 3 and have spares...

Point is I've been told repeatedly on here the old anchors simply don't work, but they work fine and have for many years.

My CQR is very worn and still works great.

I'll see how the 10 KG claw works this year....

I'd hate to pay over 10% of my boats purchase price for an anchor so I use what I have for as long as it works.

[jerryf609]

Thomm, that Bruce you have looks like what i have that came with boat 4 years ago.

I had to drop anchor when my motor quit.in Muskegon Lake just outside of the chanel to Lake Michigan.It dragged and dragged. And finally my boat stopped near the beach. Luckily i had not made the turn into the channel. The channel is steel and big rocks on both sides.

Im going with a much heavier anchor and modern design not because it's cool or new but based on tests it will perform well for my boat and my cruising area.

I'll not only have 125' of chain but probably about 150 of rope (depending on how much fits in my anchor well.

In some of the harbors where i will anchor there can be tight quarters in anchorable spots.

[jerryf609]

P.S. My anchor will be galvanized not shiny.

[soopad00pa]

I've decided to go with a 5kg solid gold CQR and pair it with a 1000ft of 550 cord (it came with the boat - PO was rly crafty). That'll let me use a scope of 1:75-100 in most places.

And when currency destabilizes worldwide, I'll have that anchor to fall back on. Win, win.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by jerryf609

Thomm, that Bruce you have looks like what i have that came with boat 4 years ago.

I had to drop anchor when my motor quit.in Muskegon Lake just outside of the chanel to Lake Michigan.It dragged and dragged. And finally my boat stopped near the beach. Luckily i had not made the turn into the channel. The channel is steel and big rocks on both sides.

Im going with a much heavier anchor and modern design not because it's cool or new but based on tests it will perform well for my boat and my cruising area.

I'll not only have 125' of chain but probably about 150 of rope (depending on how much fits in my anchor well.

In some of the harbors where i will anchor there can be tight quarters in anchorable spots.

Great.

Whatever works for you.

Problem is I don't know how you set your anchor or how much scope you had out which could have caused your anchor to drag...if you did it improperly

I haven't tried this 10 kg Bruce knock-off I have yet, but it may be okay for my boat as it has an 8' beam and displaced around 6,000 lbs whereas your boat displaces 10,000 lbs and has a 10.83' beam so we'll see.

Also since I know the area my anchoring tests at first will be in good spots and I'll increase difficulty from there

My CQR though has held fine in 2'-3' waves and 25 knot onshore winds and did fine on this day as well.

Funny thing was 30 minutes before this video was taken I was arguing with CF members on the merits of the CQR I had just "tossed" overboard without a powered backdown set. I always let my anchors set with wind and tide....

This squall only lasted for a couple hours and it was an offshore breeze so not as tough as on other nights with onshore winds 70 yards off the beach..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okRZs6os5Eo

[team karst]

550 cord has saved more than one life. Not so sure about a lump of gold. [emoji848]

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by thomm225

...
I spent like $30,000 on the last two beach cats I raced.

Pictures are of the Nacra 17 only. I don't have any of my Nacra 6.0 available today.

And those aren't silly?


[In fact, I'm salivating. I raced a Prindle 18-2 35 years ago. So much fun! I got out on a friend's Prindle 19 last summer and it really took me back, flying a hull with fingertip control. The mojo came back fast. So much fun.]

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by thinwater

And those aren't silly?


[In fact, I'm salivating. I raced a Prindle 18-2 35 years ago. So much fun! I got out on a friend's Prindle 19 last summer and it really took me back, flying a hull with fingertip control. The mojo came back fast. So much fun.]

You are such a techie guy and catamaran person the boat for you these days if you (and I) were young would be a $25,000 plus A Class 18' Beach Cat with a weight of 165 lbs.

One that raced them Glen Ashby Australia was on their winged Americas Cup boat as crew a few years ago.

Spithill also raced them...A Class Cats

Check out the mast bend and the wave piercing bows..

Btw in Pensacola /Ft Walton beach in the mid 90's to 2006 I got to race with folks like Carlton Tucker, Bob Curry (who I trained with on the Nacra 17/I17R) , Randy Smyth, Brian Lambert, Kirk Newkirk, etc.

I was actually 8 boat length behind Newkirk after 50 miles on my Nacra 6.0 (he and his crew Glen on a Supercat 22) in the 1997 RTI race out of Ft Walton Winds were light and that was my strength coming from Tennessee

I was winning in Tennessee and had to start over when I got transferred to Pensacola.

Check out the age of some of these guys. They have tons of experience ....

BTW folks no anchors onboard not even in our 100 mile races...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XO3ENVSuSM

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

More scope than 6:1 just isn't necessary with an adequate anchor. And in plenty of places (particularly in deeper water), more than 6:1 just isn't going to work without either swinging into another boat, swinging aground, etc.

That's not necessarily true. Especially with a short or no amount of chain in the rode, that could potentially result in an angle of pull of 10º in relation to the sea-bed. Even with modern anchors, this greatly decreases the max. holding ability.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

That's not necessarily true. Especially with a short or no amount of chain in the rode, that could potentially result in an angle of pull of 10º in relation to the sea-bed. Even with modern anchors, this greatly decreases the max. holding ability.

It does decrease the max holding power some compared to really long scope. But if you size the anchor adequately, you can afford to throw some holding away most of the time. So outside of planning for a bad storm or in a really bad bottom, you'd be unlikely to need so much scope. Especially in deeper water.

[jerryf609]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Great.

Whatever works for you.

Problem is I don't know how you set your anchor or how much scope you had out which could have caused your anchor to drag...if you did it improperly

I haven't tried this 10 kg Bruce knock-off I have yet, but it may be okay for my boat as it has an 8' beam and displaced around 6,000 lbs whereas your boat displaces 10,000 lbs and has a 10.83' beam so we'll see.

This was an emergency drop anchor on a boat that had mo propulsion in a busy area just inside the channel. It failed miserably. When it did stop near the beach (thankfully not near the rocks) , I think it was because the keel hit the soft bottom.

No more relying on old unreliable ground tackle for me.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by jerryf609

This was an emergency drop anchor on a boat that had mo propulsion in a busy area just inside the channel. It failed miserably. When it did stop near the beach (thankfully not near the rocks) , I think it was because the keel hit the soft bottom.

No more relying on old unreliable ground tackle for me.

When my good old CQR has dragged I either had too little scope or hit a hard spot.

Once the wind swung around bring in waves from the ocean. Before the shift I was protected by Fisherman's Island but after like 1 am when the wind turned waves were breaking over the side

I was hoping to last the night but the anchor rode was holding the boat beam to to the waves and into the current. Water was very shallow in this spot.

As luck would have it my jib head strap had broken just before I anchored too so that sail was all over the foredeck.

When the anchor came loose I pulled it in fast in the pitch black dark and got the outboard cranked. Luckily I was near a channel with strong current so I just had to get into that current to move in more. I couldn't see the beach but later could see the piling for the fish traps.

I used the depth finder to know where I was. Depth in that channel is around 35' and I was anchored in 5'. So I moved in a mile or so and anchored in 26' of water.

By this time, it was 4 am and I laid down for a minute then didn't wake until 8 am at which time I got the jib halyard down from the top of the mast by whipping it (head swivel provided the weight) and in 45 minutes or so with the help of the main halyard I got it down and was able to raise the jib. Then raised the main and got behind the cement ships, made coffee and relaxed.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by thomm225

When my good old CQR has dragged I either had too little scope or hit a hard spot.

He's not talking about dragging. He's talking about a sudden loss of propulsion in a confined space with imminent risk of grounding. Dump the anchor overboard quickly and hope like hell it grabs. His didn't. Most modern designs will. There's no option for good setting technique in that situation. It's just dump enough rode while still moving and hope.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

He's not talking about dragging. He's talking about a sudden loss of propulsion in a confined space with imminent risk of grounding. Dump the anchor overboard quickly and hope like hell it grabs. His didn't. Most modern designs will. There's no option for good setting technique in that situation. It's just dump enough rode while still moving and hope.

That's usually how I anchor anyway which would help in that situation.

Last time that happened to me, I pulled the jib back out and tried to sail in further but couldn't so turned around in the crowded channel then thought up a new plan