Using a ball weight on the anchor chain

[mrcarson]

Why do you think ships anchors are ugly HEAVY shapeless lumps of steel?.
It's the chain that holds you in place 90% of the time. The first 30ft of chain is the important part with the lighter vessels we need a pick to hold it in place. but chains weight is what does the job primarily.
Look at some underwater shots taken of several types of anchoring systems in a decent blow. Catenery. Bow in chain. movement of first section of chain on seabed
and as it rises. There used to be lots avail, from the mfg's of different ones and navy, decades ago.
In a storm, (32ft 8.3ton steel cutter) my primary anchor setup is a shackle on 82lb Admiralty pick with oversized heart shaped plates welded on ends of tines. to hold, or dig in sand/clay etc. With 40 ft 3/8in link chain. Shackled onto head of my Bruce or CQR, then her chain. They have yet to move, and seabed checked afterwards. Very little. if any. drag or sideways swinging at anchor end.
I've actually (decades ago) laid my chain full 120mtr length out sans any pick.
and laid to it all night. Radar on alarm setting. Decent blow. 12/15+ knots in Tropics (not as strong as in cold climates, LESS dense air) She didn't move back or sideways.
The heavier the chain you can CARRY in stem or run back on skid plates to v berth area the safer your sleeping time will be.
UNknown area/ground After you've tested bottom consistency I always lay to 2 picks on the one chain and radar. (no crew). I have a 10in length of 1.1/2in dia lead pipe filled for 8ish in with poured lead for weight. on dropline.
Grease inside bottom. Drop to seabed tells you if mud.sand or solid.
Some of our old school tricks from older school sailors come in handy. I was taught a lot from blokes born pre1900. Could read a Sextant and Tide Tables at 11yrs old. and lay a 60ft timber trawler alongside the fish quay on my 11th birthday too. (standing on a fish box at helm/throttle).
Close quarters anchorages. I was always taught to head offshore (if time allowed) and ride it out. bumping on the waves in a good seaboat was always preferable to bumping other boats in shallow water thank you.

[MathiasW]

Originally Posted by mrcarson

Why do you think ships anchors are ugly HEAVY shapeless lumps of steel?.
It's the chain that holds you in place 90% of the time. The first 30ft of chain is the important part with the lighter vessels we need a pick to hold it in place. but chains weight is what does the job primarily.

Alright, here we go again... this myth never seems to die...

That is just utter nonsense. If the chain is holding you, you would not need an anchor to begin with, would you. Just put some chain out and you will be good.

The anchor will hold the vessel, nothing else. The chain will, by way of gravity, rise and fall and thereby act as a temporary energy storage to absorb shock loads. Assisted by elastic snubbers or ropes.

If the chain does not have a catenary shape before the gust / swell hits the vessel, it cannot absorb the shock load and the anchor will be directly exposed to this load increase, if you do not have an elastic snubber / rope on the other side to compensate.

For this reason it is important that there is enough chain, and yes, in this sense the chain is holding you as well, as it absorbs some of the shock loads. The same can be said about a very elastic snubber.

But do not think it is the chain's friction on the seabed that is doing this. That friction is only a tiny contribution. You will realise this if you try to pull 20 metres of 10 mm chain stretched out on the beach. Rather easy! And a joke for just about any vessel to pull away in seconds.

The chain ONLY contributes via gravity, absorbing energy burst as potential energy when getting lifted off the seabed. In deep water it can form a very nice catenary and then will work very well, even in a storm. In shallow water it cannot.

Cheers,

Mathias

https://anchorchaincalculator.com

https://trimaran-san.de/die-kettenku...atiker-ankert/

[Baby tug]

I’m sensing a lot of stress in this post , I think you gotta dive down and screw a screw Anchor In so then you can sleep like a baby , providing your chain or your road doesn’t break , I just love how people are so passionate about There anchoring techniques

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

And "tort" is what lawyers do to you??

which when put together become the modern "tangle"

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Baby tug

I’m sensing a lot of stress in this post , I think you gotta dive down and screw a screw Anchor In so then you can sleep like a baby , providing your chain or your road doesn’t break , I just love how people are so passionate about There anchoring techniques

*their anchoring techniques

[MathiasW]

Originally Posted by Baby tug

I’m sensing a lot of stress in this post , I think you gotta dive down and screw a screw Anchor In so then you can sleep like a baby , providing your chain or your road doesn’t break , I just love how people are so passionate about There anchoring techniques

The stress stems from the fact that folks with these views and techniques of anchoring may show up as neighbours at your next anchorage... and may well drift into you.

Just 2 weeks ago I had two anchor neighbours in Panama, where one told me that the other had dragged into him in the last squall - before my arrival. So, I tried to have a friendly chat with that guy and he assured me it will not happen again, as he has now created a nice pile of anchor chain next to his anchor. All will be good now... and it was shallow water, and he did not have any snubber or bridle at all. Just plain chain... I moved somewhere else.

Funnily enough, I saw the same guy a few days later at the dinghy dock. He had a chain wrapped elaborately around his paddles, but without any locks or anything. I must have had a puzzled look on my face, and so he elaborated that this is an anti theft measure...

hmm, you could simply pull out the paddles along their long axis...

Clearly a guy who has not understood the concept of a chain in a number of use cases...

Cheers, Mathias

Anchor Chain Calculator

[rgleason]

You could use the calculation page shown in this link to get a more accurate location foe the kellet. This web app is quite versatle. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums....php?p=3582155

Also read Mathias comment
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums....php?p=3655323

Also his Anchor Chain Calculator app is a great tool to have when anchoring in new places.
Its on google playstore and iphone.

Kellets down by the anchor will help.
But off the seabed.

[rgleason]

BTW I think that rather than using chain as a kellet, I would add the chain before a storm, which I have as an option. For those without windlass, it is not difficult to shackle another length of "storm" chain. Also for those who are expecting to deploy over 200' of nylon rode in a big storm, it might be better to add anothe nylon line to help reduce excessive stretch, then add a snubber to adjust it to condirions.

[Baby tug]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

*their anchoring techniques

Don’t blame me blame Apple i use their dictation so it’s their fault , but like I said there’s a lot of stress on this thread , I guess using a capital letter is a crime

[macieknan]

I found kellet awesome when anchoring in currents. I have never deployed it in a blow for reasons already stated by others, mainly not to fiddle with it if there is an emergency

[rgleason]

Physically you are correct, all stress no compression.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Baby tug

Don’t blame me blame Apple i use their dictation so it’s their fault , but like I said there’s a lot of stress on this thread , I guess using a capital letter is a crime

Spelling errors are caused by stress so it seems Siri is stressed as well

ps it was a little more than the capital letter :-)

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rgleason

BTW I think that rather than using chain as a kellet, I would add the chain before a storm, which I have as an option. For those without windlass, it is not difficult to shackle another length of "storm" chain. Also for those who are expecting to deploy over 200' of nylon rode in a big storm, it might be better to add anothe nylon line to help reduce excessive stretch, then add a snubber to adjust it to condirions.

You can do it this way, but there are several problems:

• Taking on and off shackles that are corroded and moused with wire. If they are not moused... they can and have come off. Make one mistake and you lose the boat. In fact, it is rather difficult and risky to do, if done often. Mistakes happen. And you need to up-anchor if this is for changing conditions.
• This is done for swing control and to keep the rope off the keel. Not just once in a while.
• If you are doing it to keep the rope off the keel, the kellet needs to be close to the boat, not at the anchor end.
• Using two rodes requires up-anchoring to add the second one, and carefully addressing chafe. Most people would deploy a second anchor, it is comes to this, which is easier and not as risky in the face of rising winds.
• A longer chain makes for more difficult recovery for boats that lack a windlass or even a bow roller. There are reasons to keep the chain short.

If I were going to use more chain for storms... you might as well just rig to use more chain all the time and be done with it. That is what I would do, if the longer chain did not cause problem and I didn't get rope around the keel (the keel can cut a rope--seen it happen).

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by mrcarson

Why do you think ships anchors are ugly HEAVY shapeless lumps of steel?.
It's the chain that holds you in place 90% of the time. The first 30ft of chain is the important part with the lighter vessels we need a pick to hold it in place. but chains weight is what does the job primarily.
Look at some underwater shots taken of several types of anchoring systems in a decent blow. Catenery. Bow in chain. movement of first section of chain on seabed
and as it rises. There used to be lots avail, from the mfg's of different ones and navy, decades ago.
In a storm, (32ft 8.3ton steel cutter) my primary anchor setup is a shackle on 82lb Admiralty pick with oversized heart shaped plates welded on ends of tines. to hold, or dig in sand/clay etc. With 40 ft 3/8in link chain. Shackled onto head of my Bruce or CQR, then her chain. They have yet to move, and seabed checked afterwards. Very little. if any. drag or sideways swinging at anchor end.
I've actually (decades ago) laid my chain full 120mtr length out sans any pick.
and laid to it all night. Radar on alarm setting. Decent blow. 12/15+ knots in Tropics (not as strong as in cold climates, LESS dense air) She didn't move back or sideways.
The heavier the chain you can CARRY in stem or run back on skid plates to v berth area the safer your sleeping time will be.
UNknown area/ground After you've tested bottom consistency I always lay to 2 picks on the one chain and radar. (no crew). I have a 10in length of 1.1/2in dia lead pipe filled for 8ish in with poured lead for weight. on dropline.
Grease inside bottom. Drop to seabed tells you if mud.sand or solid.
Some of our old school tricks from older school sailors come in handy. I was taught a lot from blokes born pre1900. Could read a Sextant and Tide Tables at 11yrs old. and lay a 60ft timber trawler alongside the fish quay on my 11th birthday too. (standing on a fish box at helm/throttle).
Close quarters anchorages. I was always taught to head offshore (if time allowed) and ride it out. bumping on the waves in a good seaboat was always preferable to bumping other boats in shallow water thank you.

Please take a length of chain (the amount the will be in the sea floor, perhaps 40 feet) and tell me if you think it would even hold your dinghy in a blow. You will be able to drag it with one finger.


Really, comparing heavy fishing boat practice with recreational boat practice is pointless. They have little in common.

[MathiasW]

Originally Posted by mrcarson

I've actually (decades ago) laid my chain full 120mtr length out sans any pick.
and laid to it all night. Radar on alarm setting. Decent blow. 12/15+ knots in Tropics (not as strong as in cold climates, LESS dense air) She didn't move back or sideways.

So, just a double check on this... At that kind of light wind, I guess at least 100 metres of that chain were on the seabed. If I assume a 10 mm chain (likely yours is less than that), then in water the chain will weigh 2 kg per running metre. The friction force in sand is close to 100% of the weight of the chain, which then gives about 200 kg of holding power by sheer friction - as long as the chain does not start moving. Even sideways.

On the other hand, in 15 kn of wind, a vessel of your size has perhaps a wind load of only 100 kg. Which means, the chain can well support it without the need of an anchor.

But then double the wind speed to 30 kn, which is a factor 4 in the wind load, and the chain is not able anymore to hold your vessel. Even worse, when you need the friction force, in a strong blow, it is not there anymore because the chain has raised above the seabed.

So, not a good idea at all not to have an anchor.

And btw - if anchors really were not needed, then why would commercial large ships not drop the anchor entirely? (Pun intended ) If an anchor is not needed, cost optimisation to increase margins would require you to get rid of it. But they all still have it...

Cheers, Mathias

Anchor Chain Calculator