Using an Anchor Buoy in a Tight Anchorage?

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Are you sure the twine is so flimsy that it won't foul a prop? Or pull up your anchor?

I can easily pull it apart by hand but hanks for reminding me. I have to pick up another spool

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

I'm not sure I understand. In tight anchorages, it it often assumed that all boats will swing more or less the same way and it's necessary to set anchor within someone else's swing circle. Obviously it's better if everyone keeps outside each others' circles, but that could result in far fewer boats being able to use the anchorage. To me, that would be even more rude.

In my neighborhood it is not that common that a current or breeze will keep everyone pointed the same way, and boats on one anchor swing sometimes together or apart depending on how the current or breeze is swirling around in the anchorage, especially at night. During the day, when the afternoon breeze is blowing steadily, folks often anchor assuming that’s how it will continue to be, but it doesn’t work out that way.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Don C L

In my neighborhood it is not that common that a current or breeze will keep everyone pointed the same way, and boats on one anchor swing sometimes together or apart depending on how the current or breeze is swirling around in the anchorage, especially at night. During the day, when the afternoon breeze is blowing steadily, folks often anchor assuming that’s how it will continue to be, but it doesn’t work out that way.

and ... planing hull powerboats, displacement hull powerboats, catamarans, full keeled and deep fin keeled boats all swing differently.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

I can easily pull it apart by hand but hanks for reminding me. I have to pick up another spool

Well, good on you then, for thinking it through to that extent.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Don C L

...boats on one anchor swing sometimes together or apart depending on how the current or breeze is swirling around in the anchorage, especially at night...

Originally Posted by boatpoker

and ... planing hull powerboats, displacement hull powerboats, catamarans, full keeled and deep fin keeled boats all swing differently.

All true. More room between anchored boats is always a good thing.

Still, the reality is that in some anchorages there just isn't room for the luxury of isolated swing circles. It would be very rude to try to assert that "right" and exclude others.

Good anchorages aren't always easy to find, certainly not on the rocky coast of Maine. When you finally reach one at the end of a long day, you may have little choice but to share it with whoever is already there. And if winds become light and variable at night, that's a good thing. A well-placed fender or two isn't an inconvenience. Even a gentle bump in the night is a risk worth taking. It's when the weather gets lively that I start to lose sleep.

[RafaCorfu]

This is why is so funny see all the selfcalled sailors, usually from the north down here in the crowded Med... Your "ruies" are as useless as those who trap a buoy in the prop.
And by the way, "my circle" does not express property, express just where I am, and the buoy just try inform, politely, where the anchor is. That easy, that "rude"

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

All true. More room between anchored boats is always a good thing.

Still, the reality is that in some anchorages there just isn't room for the luxury of isolated swing circles. It would be very rude to try to assert that "right" and exclude others.

Good anchorages aren't always easy to find, certainly not on the rocky coast of Maine. When you finally reach one at the end of a long day, you may have little choice but to share it with whoever is already there. And if winds become light and variable at night, that's a good thing. A well-placed fender or two isn't an inconvenience. Even a gentle bump in the night is a risk worth taking. It's when the weather gets lively that I start to lose sleep.

1. I make no demand for isolated swing circles but if the new arrival does not know where my anchor is, how does he plan his swing circle accordingly ?

2. We always have more than one anchorage planned. If one is too crowded, we move on. I don't believe I have the right to shoehorn my boat into an anchorage that does not have safe room for me. I do not have the right to endanger others due to my lack of planning.

[JPA Cate]

When we anchored in the hurricane hole, and did buoy our anchor (with a fender, with the boat name on it), we were first in. There was a better place, and a catamaran went there, up the mangrove creek next to a village, but too shallow for us at 2.2 m.

I haven't spent time anchoring around in Spain, so I don't know, but it is possible that local custom is to buoy the anchor. Suppose it is local custom, so that anchoring in a user-friendly way there does require that one use something. Would you not, as a guest, conform to local custom? Is not that the greater politeness?

Ann

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

As others have said, if you are in a remote place with a rocky bottom, without a lot of other boats around, this is a completely different situation and no one will criticize you for that

Many rocky AND busy places in the Med. Try Capri for example...

Still, I like the idea of a sub surface float line and may try that. We usually try to anchor in 4-5m. Sometimes we need to go to 10-12m.
As I can comfortably freedive to about 4-5m, I am thinking about two lengths of float line, a 3m and a 5m piece, both with a bowline at the end, then I can clip one in which is within my freediverange under the surface but not high enough to get in someones prop.

Problem though, if you need to leave in a hurry at night with a stuck anchor that won't be as helpful as a real float if the anchor is stuck. Only option then, buoy the chain and get it back later.


Regarding not snagging the chain in big Vulcanic bolders under water we found a float with a line at about a bit mire then 1/2 chain length back helpful. It lifts the chain a bit of the ground. Some people do the same to avoid snagging corals. Unfortunately it's not an option in real busy places.

[boatpoker]

I use my milk bottle and twine to mark my anchor, not for unsticking it. If my anchor gets hung up I use this instead ......

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Good anchorages aren't always easy to find, certainly not on the rocky coast of Maine. When you finally reach one at the end of a long day, you may have little choice but to share it with whoever is already there. And if winds become light and variable at night, that's a good thing. A well-placed fender or two isn't an inconvenience. Even a gentle bump in the night is a risk worth taking. It's when the weather gets lively that I start to lose sleep.

And this is why around here the custom for many years has been for everyone to set a bow and stern hook. Then there's room for more people and no crashing in the night. I really don't understand the hostility to the practice. But that is fodder for another thread perhaps...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by RafaCorfu

. . . And by the way, "my circle" does not express property, express just where I am, and the buoy just try inform, politely, where the anchor is. That easy, that "rude"

If your buoy is holographic rather than physical, then it merely informs, and indeed, that's a great thing.

However, if it is a physical floating thing, it will interfere with others anchoring nearby, even when it's otherwise safe to do so, or even motoring across that spot. That's not informative, and NOT polite.

In fact, in that case, the buoy is a hazard to navigation, a hazard to your own anchor's security, and an expression of poor seamanship and lack of consideration for others, or even for your own safety, since someone's tangle with your buoy will pull out your anchor and set you adrift.

When more experienced sailors see someone in a crowded anchorage with an anchor buoy deployed, most of them will try to find a place as far away as possible. Not only because they don't want to tangle with the buoy, but they also don't want to tangle with YOU, as they don't know what else in the way of poor seamanship or inconsideration to expect from you, and they don't want to be anywhere near.

This could be part of the purpose of anchor buoys in crowded anchorages, actually -- like playing loud music or lying naked on deck, as discussed in this forum a number of times. Drive others away.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Don C L

And this is why around here the custom for many years has been for everyone to set a bow and stern hook. Then there's room for more people and no crashing in the night. I really don't understand the hostility to the practice. But that is fodder for another thread perhaps...

In places prone to wind shifts or wind from different directions on different days it doesn't work as well. Being anchored bow and stern while sideways to the wind is generally a bad situation. It's also more of a pain to set up, especially for larger boats with correspondingly bigger / heavier stern anchors.

In a place with a steady prevailing wind direction where boats will typically face the same direction then anchoring bow and stern becomes more of an option.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

1. I make no demand for isolated swing circles but if the new arrival does not know where my anchor is, how does he plan his swing circle accordingly ?

There are some articles linked above which explain techniques used for this.

If there's even a slight wind and boats are swinging in line, then you have a good idea about where everyone's anchor is. The main wild card is scope, and one of the articles talks about asking when in doubt -- what I do as well. In general in crowded anchorages you want to use minimum safe scope in order to limit your swinging and leave more room for others. In places like the UK where there is a high average level of seamanship and skill you can assume that no one is using more than 4:1 or 5:1 unless there is really bad weather forecast, in which case you don't want to be in a crowded anchorage at all.

I don't need to know where your anchor is; all I need to know is your scope. In one of these discussions someone suggested we should raise signal flags indicating scope, exactly for this purpose. That's a good idea but in general if you anchor near me you can be sure that I'm not using more than 4:1 unless there is bad weather forecast.

In fact, in reasonable weather, you can just raft up to me and save the wear and tear on your ground tackle. Especially if you have gin on board.

And I'm very happy for you to be inside my swinging circle. In practice, it is exceptionally rare for boats to swing into each other at anchor, and if they do, it is always a very gentle contact which doesn't cause any damage. If you're nervous about it, put some fenders out.

Originally Posted by boatpoker

2. We always have more than one anchorage planned. If one is too crowded, we move on. I don't believe I have the right to shoehorn my boat into an anchorage that does not have safe room for me. I do not have the right to endanger others due to my lack of planning.

I agree completely. I don't like crowded anchorages and rarely use them. I have 330 feet of heavy 1/2" chain and can anchor in deeper water than most cruisers like, and I frequently just anchor further out, if I can't find a less crowded place.

But as others have mentioned, you sometimes don't have any choice but to anchor in conditions which don't allow anyone to stay outside everyone else's swinging circle. In that case it is essential to understand how this works and where to put your anchor so you swing harmoniously with others.

A perfect example is the little bay south of St. Peter Port in Guernsey, which is the only feasible anchorage on that whole side of the island. At some states of tide (which has a range of more than 40' there) you can't even get into the marina as an alternative to anchoring. As a result, that place is frequently very crowded with nothing to do about it but cooperate.

And it doesn't matter whether you came first or last. It's everyone's problem if the anchorage is tight and requires close anchoring and there are no feasible alternative anchorages nearby, and everyone needs to cooperate to make it work smoothly.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Don C L

And this is why around here the custom for many years has been for everyone to set a bow and stern hook. Then there's room for more people and no crashing in the night. I really don't understand the hostility to the practice. But that is fodder for another thread perhaps...

There are places around here (very few, but they exist) where bow-and-stern anchoring is the local practice. It would be rude to set just one anchor in those locations. Apparently some people try anyway, because one time a local made it a point to come over and thank me for setting two. Respecting local tradition is always a good thing.