Videos of Anchors Setting

[jtsailjt]

I guess I should admit to my pro SPADE bias right up front but the reason for that is how easily/quickly it sets and the fact that it’s never dragged in my experience. In other words, when I’m approaching an anchorage I know I’lll have my anchor down and set in no time and once my SPADE is set, I sleep very well, and I think that’s the most important test of an anchor. Everything else is of secondary importance, at least to me.

I’m not concerned about surface rust on a metal part that’s constantly exposed to rocks and sand and gravel. I’m 63 so by the time this surface rust affects structural integrity I’ll be long gone, and the next owner of my boat can get a free replacement under SPADES lifetime warranty. I was a civil engineer so accustomed to analyzing forces on various shaped structures and its plain to me that the bolt in a SPADE rudder is under no load at all from the forces from your rode pulling on the shank from any direction it might pull. I’m personally not a fan of stainless steel anchors but at least one poster has expressed concern about the stainless SPADE shank being too weak. If that’s true though, unless you think it’s so weak that it might snap in half, the worse that can happen is it bends a bit and you send it back to SPADE for a free replacement.

Im not claiming that some of the other anchors discussed aren’t great too, but I consider my anchor to be a safety device so think that when making an anchor buying decision it’s important to remain primarily focused on how the anchor will perform when you need it to the most.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I consider my anchor to be a safety device so think that when making an anchor buying decision it’s important to remain primarily focused on how the anchor will perform when you need it to the most.

And that's why we're all so appreciative of the work that goes into the videos in this thread. If an anchor can set in some of the violent conditions shown, I can definitely expect it to set in the real world.

[jtsailjt]

Too late to edit but I meant SPADE anchor, not spade rudder in my post just above. That's what I get for posting in the middle of the night.....

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I’m not concerned about surface rust on a metal part that’s constantly exposed to rocks and sand and gravel. I’m 63 so by the time this surface rust affects structural integrity I’ll be long gone, and the next owner of my boat can get a free replacement under SPADES lifetime warranty. I was a civil engineer so accustomed to analyzing forces on various shaped structures and its plain to me that the bolt in a SPADE rudder is under no load at all from the forces from your rode pulling on the shank from any direction it might pull. I’m personally not a fan of stainless steel anchors but at least one poster has expressed concern about the stainless SPADE shank being too weak. If that’s true though, unless you think it’s so weak that it might snap in half, the worse that can happen is it bends a bit and you send it back to SPADE for a free replacement.

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Spade. It adds to an already large pile of anecdotal and testing data that supports the Spade as the best performing option for roll-bar-less anchors.

I've never seen a mention of the robust warranty policy that you mentioned. I don't see any evidence of it on their website, and when I contacted Spade and sent them pictures of the level of corrosion and sloppy movement/play in the shank/fluke interface they were very non-committal and unhelpful. The surface corrosion is one thing, and maybe I'm overestimating how much it compromises the strength of a two part, hollow shank design. I also have some engineering experience, and the amount of slop in the shank/fluke interface has me really doubting that the bolt is not taking the bulk of the load.

Maybe the anchor has just seen too much use by the previous owners, and it has run its course with corrosion and it's time to replace it. If that's the case, it's not super impressive to me, since the anchor is only 4 years old. But maybe that's how I need to calculate the costs, that to get the performance I want, I may have to buy a new anchor ever 5 or so years.

[Panope]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF6iiL3KKA4&t=627s

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Thanks for sharing your experience with the Spade. It adds to an already large pile of anecdotal and testing data that supports the Spade as the best performing option for roll-bar-less anchors.

I've never seen a mention of the robust warranty policy that you mentioned. I don't see any evidence of it on their website, and when I contacted Spade and sent them pictures of the level of corrosion and sloppy movement/play in the shank/fluke interface they were very non-committal and unhelpful. The surface corrosion is one thing, and maybe I'm overestimating how much it compromises the strength of a two part, hollow shank design. I also have some engineering experience, and the amount of slop in the shank/fluke interface has me really doubting that the bolt is not taking the bulk of the load.

Maybe the anchor has just seen too much use by the previous owners, and it has run its course with corrosion and it's time to replace it. If that's the case, it's not super impressive to me, since the anchor is only 4 years old. But maybe that's how I need to calculate the costs, that to get the performance I want, I may have to buy a new anchor ever 5 or so years.

Every 5 years would be outrageous and certainly not true. The invoice for our anchor shows it was bought by the French original owners from Spade Europe in Tunisia in 2004 - looks like it only took them a few months to realise the stock Spade A100 anchor was hopelessly under-sized. It was regalvanised in 2015 and the point of the toe is rusting again. As I wrote earlier, I’ve seen the bolt previously but didn’t actually realise the anchor is in two parts until recently. There is absolutely no play in our anchor. If I wasn’t replacing it with a larger anchor I can’t see why we wouldn’t keep it forever.

Disassemble, clean it up, and reassemble - it should fit tight with no movement.

Regarding the warranty, I’ve seen nothing that shows it’s lifetime. Or at least, it doesn’t transfer to subsequent owners. The PO put a Wasi PowerBall swivel directly on the shaft and sure enough at some point it was side loaded sufficiently that the very end of the shaft is bent 20 degrees at the flat part where the shackle hole is. I took a photo and sent it to Spade Europe with the invoice and all I got in return was a “so what” email response. They offered to send me a new shaft for €200. No thanks, I’ll live with a slightly bent shaft and shackle my chain to the shaft.

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Every 5 years would be outrageous and certainly not true. The invoice for our anchor shows it was bought by the French original owners from Spade Europe in Tunisia in 2004 - looks like it only took them a few months to realise the stock Spade A100 anchor was hopelessly under-sized. It was regalvanised in 2015 and the point of the toe is rusting again. As I wrote earlier, I’ve seen the bolt previously but didn’t actually realise the anchor is in two parts until recently. There is absolutely no play in our anchor. If I wasn’t replacing it with a larger anchor I can’t see why we wouldn’t keep it forever.

Disassemble, clean it up, and reassemble - it should fit tight with no movement.

Regarding the warranty, I’ve seen nothing that shows it’s lifetime. Or at least, it doesn’t transfer to subsequent owners. The PO put a Wasi PowerBall swivel directly on the shaft and sure enough at some point it was side loaded sufficiently that the very end of the shaft is bent 20 degrees at the flat part where the shackle hole is. I took a photo and sent it to Spade Europe with the invoice and all I got in return was a “so what” email response. They offered to send me a new shaft for €200. No thanks, I’ll live with a slightly bent shaft and shackle my chain to the shaft.

I definitely don't think that it is an issue of any debris being in the way, or anything that could be removed by cleaning it up. If anything, it is a problem due to the lack of material. With the shank all the way into the fluke slot, with the bolt installed and nut snugged up, the shank has a large amount of play up and down. If the design depends on a tight fit that jams the wedge shaped shank into the wedge shaped slot, that is probably not happening with my anchor, at least not before the bolt takes load.

I'm looking for reasons to invest in the Excel. It wins in every category for me except performance, and that's a hard thing to accept in an anchor. That being said, many many people use anchors that don't seem to perform on par with the Spade or Mantus, with great results. So am I making too much of what I see in Steve's videos?

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Are there any reports of the two-piece Spade failing due to the bolt or some other reason? .

I think there was one isolated incident were a spade anchor came apart. However, there was a question about if the bolt had been tightened up sufficiently or how many times it had been assembled and disassembled. It's a nyloc nut isn't it?

Pete

[Muaddib1116]

That's the only incident I've heard of. I think after that they went to nyloc, or they already had the nyloc and added the cotter pin. Something like that. The one helpful thing I got from Spade's customer service is that their new setup doesn't have the hole and cotter pin. Instead they use two nyloc nuts and back them onto eachother.

[jtsailjt]

Regarding the SPADE warranty, I have firsthand experience with it. The SPADE anchor that came with my boat when I bought it had bad rust, not so much on the anchors fluke but rather in the thin metal that makes up the pocket that contains the lead. I contacted them to inquire about getting this repaired and they asked for photos, which I emailed to them. I also made it clear that this anchor had come with the 25 year old boat so I was not the original buyer and had no idea when it was purchased. They told me to send my anchor to them and they would send me a new one. I wanted to upgrade in size so I only paid the difference in price between the 2 anchors and 2 weeks later a FEDEX truck showed with a brand new SPADE anchor. That’s my.own experience 3 years ago, not conjecture or what somebody told me their policy was.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Panope

Wow! Surprising to me too. Looking forward to the sand and gravel. Is it possible that my mistrust in this anchor is misplaced?

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

Regarding the SPADE warranty, I have firsthand experience with it. The SPADE anchor that came with my boat when I bought it had bad rust, not so much on the anchors fluke but rather in the thin metal that makes up the pocket that contains the lead. I contacted them to inquire about getting this repaired and they asked for photos, which I emailed to them. I also made it clear that this anchor had come with the 25 year old boat so I was not the original buyer and had no idea when it was purchased. They told me to send my anchor to them and they would send me a new one. I wanted to upgrade in size so I only paid the difference in price between the 2 anchors and 2 weeks later a FEDEX truck showed with a brand new SPADE anchor. That’s my.own experience 3 years ago, not conjecture or what somebody told me their policy was.

That's great, but I don't get the feeling that they still operate that way. I contacted them, explaining that I had just bought a boat with a Spade and all I was asking was whether the state of the shank/fluke interface was as it should be. They said that without pictures they couldn't tell me much, so I sent a video. He then asked me to call him, which I did, and then I got a very noncommittal response that didn't really tell me whether the anchor was supposed to have that amount of movement between the two parts or not. I strongly got the feeling that he didn't want to admit that it was more than normal.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Wow! Surprising to me too. Looking forward to the sand and gravel. Is it possible that my mistrust in this anchor is misplaced?

I'm thinking it might highly depend on location. I am starting to see a pattern where the CQR works well in the heavy sandy mud (that is also weed free) of higher latitudes, but is lousy in the harder sand (coral?) of the tropics.

Here is a link to a Skip Novak anchor video. 10 miles from Cape Horn, 40 to 50 kts wind, 105 lb. CQR. Certainly Skip Novak could have any anchor he chooses.

https://youtu.be/rYfoki6vW-M

Steve

[Panope]

I am considering loading up Panope with all of my 40-50 lb. anchors and going on a remote anchor test mission, with the goal of finding/testing in a hard substrate.

Does anyone know of a hard sand or other hard seabed in the North Puget Sound or San Juan Islands?

Steve

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Panope,

Interesting test of the gen*u*ine CQR. You notice it has "Made in Scotland" on it. If the anchor your Dad had did not have that, it was indeed a copy. However, it could also have been a CQR vs. bottom issue. We had a CQR knockoff. It hated thin sand over coral. I used to back down with it at only just about 1-1.5 kn. And sometimes it would still plow furrows. But it was a knockoff.

I know it's only anecdotal, but friends with a real CQR, whose hole got "ovalized", repaired the anchor, and it has not drug since then. They have cruised from Oz, via NZ and HI to AK and return, using that anchor. A 40 ft. boat and a 80 lb CQR. They swear by it, not at it.

Ann