Videos of Anchors Setting

[Muaddib1116]

Originally Posted by Panope

Hi Steve, thanks for more great test videos. In regards to this one, do you feel like this failure of the Spade to hold was a fluke? (no pun intended) Or do you feel like it was a pretty definitive weakness for the Spade?

[Panope]

Originally Posted by B-Baysailer

To me the new 2020 anchor blade almost looks like it is a cast steel ? And thank you for all the reviews

There is evidence that the entire tip is welded to the main part of the fluke (a ground out weld). See pic.

Tip could be cast.

Main part of fluke has marks at the "fold". Appears to be the result of "pressing" the shape. See pic.

Main part of fluke appeas to be cut (punched) from flat plate.

[B-Baysailer]

Yes with that picture the main part does look like plate

[wsmurdoch]

In my memory, the mud palms on a Fortress anchor were a late coming add-on to keep the anchors fluke points pointed down in a softer mud bottom. The Mantus anchor tip weight depends on the smallish roll bar ends of the fluke to hold the anchor in a point down resting position. I imagine that the tip weight and burying angle would both be much reduced in a soft bottom. Is my imagination right? If you set the Mantus anchor on a piece of softish foam rubber rather than a wood bench top, do you still have a high tip weight? Would some sort of mud palm be an improvement?

Bill

[Panope]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

In my memory, the mud palms on a Fortress anchor were a late coming add-on to keep the anchors fluke points pointed down in a softer mud bottom. The Mantus anchor tip weight depends on the smallish roll bar ends of the fluke to hold the anchor in a point down resting position. I imagine that the tip weight and burying angle would both be much reduced in a soft bottom. Is my imagination right? If you set the Mantus anchor on a piece of softish foam rubber rather than a wood bench top, do you still have a high tip weight? Would some sort of mud palm be an improvement?

Bill

That is a good question, Bill.

I'll try the "soft foam" test.

Until I start testing at my new "soft mud" seabed, I can only speculate on real world results.

I believe this phenomenon was encountered during that big "Chesapeake Bay" test from a couple years ago. If I remember correctly, the testers determined that at least one rollbar anchor failed to achieve the correct attitude and may have been 100% inverted.

If someone else remembers the details of that test, do chime in.

Steve

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Panope

That is a good question, Bill.



I'll try the "soft foam" test.



Until I start testing at my new "soft mud" seabed, I can only speculate on real world results.



I believe this phenomenon was encountered during that big "Chesapeake Bay" test from a couple years ago. If I remember correctly, the testers determined that at least one rollbar anchor failed to achieve the correct attitude and may have been 100% inverted.



If someone else remembers the details of that test, do chime in.



Steve

I believe the Rocna in particular failed to set multiple times in that PS test and speculation was that it landed upside down and did not right itself.

I had same experience with my old rocna sometimes failing to set on Chesapeake and switched to Mantus which seems to do much better probably because of larger roll bar. in six years and hundreds of nights at anchor it’s only failed to set twice (both in soupy muddy leafy bottom and both where I didn’t start to back down before dropping anchor). Once set it has never dragged on Chesapeake. I believe more weight is in the fluke rather than the shank compared to rocna which also may contribute to better performance in soft substrates. And in rocky bottom maybe the thinner shank is a disadvantage compared to Rocna

Will be very interested to see if you notice a difference in your testing

[Souzag818]

I'm not a roll bar anchor guy, or an engineer, but I have a question/request for Steve. Since the tip to total weight is 50%, higher than any other anchor you've tested, would the natural inclination of the anchor be to roll over into the burying position, without the roll bar? My Spade doesn't have a roll bar, and must have less than 50% tip to total weight, but it assumes the position every time. So my request would be to test the Mantus without the roll bar, and see if it would bury. If it does, is the roll bar really necessary? Just thinking outside the box...

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

I'm not a roll bar anchor guy, or an engineer, but I have a question/request for Steve. Since the tip to total weight is 50%, higher than any other anchor you've tested, would the natural inclination of the anchor be to roll over into the burying position, without the roll bar? My Spade doesn't have a roll bar, and must have less than 50% tip to total weight, but it assumes the position every time. So my request would be to test the Mantus without the roll bar, and see if it would bury. If it does, is the roll bar really necessary? Just thinking outside the box...

The Mantus M1 must use the Rollbar. Without it, and the anchor landed (or backflipped) upside down, the anchor would be very very stable in the upsidedown condition.

A rollbarless M1 mantus would be much like a catamaran - very stable when upright and very stable when upsidedown. Both are unballasted.

It is certainly not a design flaw. The rollbar is part of the design - full stop

Steve

[Don C L]

In really soft mud, aren't they all fairly stable upside down?

[malbert73]

Probably but my experience with smaller roll bar and heavier shank variants was that they likely stay upside down more easily

[Souzag818]

Originally Posted by Panope

The Mantus M1 must use the Rollbar. Without it, and the anchor landed (or backflipped) upside down, the anchor would be very very stable in the upsidedown condition.

A rollbarless M1 mantus would be much like a catamaran - very stable when upright and very stable when upsidedown. Both are unballasted.

It is certainly not a design flaw. The rollbar is part of the design - full stop

Steve

Originally Posted by Don C L

In really soft mud, aren't they all fairly stable upside down?

First off, thanks for the reply, Steve. I can see what you're saying. But I can see Dons point.. If you had soft mud or sand, and a rollbar anchor lands upside down, would it not just drag upside down? Since the roll bar would be buried and it is unballasted? At least for a while. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but no rollbar for me.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

First off, thanks for the reply, Steve. I can see what you're saying. But I can see Dons point.. If you had soft mud or sand, and a rollbar anchor lands upside down, would it not just drag upside down? Since the roll bar would be buried and it is unballasted? At least for a while. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but no rollbar for me.

Yes, can happen. I've also seen a Spade (much less likely) become stable upside down. But as soon as the direction changes, they generally flop over.



For this to happen the mud has to really be pudding, the kind of bottom where the best (not counting Fortress) 45-pound anchor holds maybe 500 pounds. You need to move.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Panope

That is a good question, Bill.

I'll try the "soft foam" test.

Until I start testing at my new "soft mud" seabed, I can only speculate on real world results.

I believe this phenomenon was encountered during that big "Chesapeake Bay" test from a couple years ago. If I remember correctly, the testers determined that at least one rollbar anchor failed to achieve the correct attitude and may have been 100% inverted.

If someone else remembers the details of that test, do chime in.

Steve

From the mouth of one of the people there, that was pure speculation. No one dove on the anchors. Might be accurate, but it's just a theory.


But I have seen this happen when testing at the same site and near there, but with a different brand roll bar anchor. I won't name names, because the results were too variable for it to have any meaning. The next drop, it could have been a different anchor. They all sucked. (Excel was not tested, Fortress excelled).

[wsmurdoch]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

So my request would be to test the Mantus without the roll bar, and see if it would bury. If it does, is the roll bar really necessary? Just thinking outside the box...

The original Mantus dinghy anchor (like the one Steve tested) did not have a roll bar. I have one that I bought from the first production batch. Dropped or thrown from my dinghy it lands upright 90% of the time and bites into the bottom. If it lands upside down, it can not invert itself and drags forever. The only cure is to pull it up and drop it again. I've watched it numerous times in the clear water and sand bottom of the Bahamas. Mantus produced a video of what is now the M1 dropped without its roll bar and has talked a little about using the anchor without a roll bar. https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-...hout-roll-bar/ That said, the current dinghy anchor has a roll bar, and Mantus has introduced the M2 which was designed to function without a roll bar. I'd bet there is a reason.

Bill

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

The original Mantus dinghy anchor (like the one Steve tested) did not have a roll bar. I have one that I bought from the first production batch. Dropped or thrown from my dinghy it lands upright 90% of the time and bites into the bottom. If it lands upside down, it can not invert itself and drags forever. The only cure is to pull it up and drop it again. I've watched it numerous times in the clear water and sand bottom of the Bahamas. Mantus produced a video of what is now the M1 dropped without its roll bar and has talked a little about using the anchor without a roll bar. https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-...hout-roll-bar/ That said, the current dinghy anchor has a roll bar, and Mantus has introduced the M2 which was designed to function without a roll bar. I'd bet there is a reason.

Bill

I guess it matters if you anchor your dinghy deep. I’ve got the mark 1 Mantus dinghy anchor without a roll bar and we generally just chuck it out (with 5m of small chain) and if it doesn’t grip we pull it back up and chuck it again. Usually we’re not very deep and check it visually (and set it if necessary) before heading away.

It’s a dinghy anchor - not mission critical. If you’re using a larger dinghy (boat at that point) and deeper water just get a heavier anchor.