Viking anchor , now where have I seen this before.....

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Factor

No Problem, what questions would you like answered.
The reality is that anyone who thinks there is a sustainable legal position regarding Viking copying mantus is wrong both at law and in practice.

My point, which was obviously too subtly made, is that you quoted a comment from very early on in this discussion. We've moved well past that. Most people would have taken the time to catch up to where the discussion has moved before commenting. Most people... .

As you can read, I think the Viking is a good looking anchor. Since it looks very similar to most of the other 'new-gen' anchors, I think it will perform just as well. And Panope's (Steve) recent test bear this out.

If/when I replace my Rocna I would definitely consider a Viking. I'd love to see one in person, and even test one out, but there doesn't seem to be any sources nearby. Hopefully distributors will grow.

[Simi 60]

I'd love one of these especially after seeing panopes test.

A spare one piece 175lb anchor takes up a hell of a lot of space not to mention difficult to move into position but one I can bolt together on site would be a thing of wonder.

[IslandInfedel]

How much can one really evolve a anchor at this point?

My concern would be how it’s bolted together, also what’s it made of, and where is it made? Ukraine?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

I'd love one of these especially after seeing panopes test.

A spare one piece 175lb anchor takes up a hell of a lot of space not to mention difficult to move into position but one I can bolt together on site would be a thing of wonder.

Yes but they don’t come bigger than 25kg... a third of what we need :-) I think I may go with a 50kg Viking for spare anchor though...

[Boatguy30]

Viking was originally a alloy take apart anchor like the Fortress probably copied they are basically identical except the crown piece. If you're coping a Mantus maybe alleast get a new name?

[Izikalvo]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Viking was originally a alloy take apart anchor like the Fortress probably copied they are basically identical except the crown piece. If you're coping a Mantus maybe alleast get a new name?

And I thought we have passed that,

Viking was born and still is made of High Tensile carbon steel alloy, it is one of its main advantages allowing it to be so light.

fluke profile is similar to Delta, Spade, Rocna - so if Viking copied - so did Rocna and so on.

The roll bar was invented and patented by Peter Bruce and first used on the Bugel.

And the last for today's lesson, where exactly do you see the similarity of Viking and Mantus names?

[Boatguy30]

Never seen a Bruce with a roll bar!

Here is THE Viking anchor:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...-XNrgppVa15ZVm

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

My point, which was obviously too subtly made,

Nope got your point. That Viking copied Mantus.My point was that they copied Rocna/who copied Manson who copied SARCA. etc etc etc

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Never seen a Bruce with a roll bar!

Here is THE Viking anchor:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...-XNrgppVa15ZVm

Bruce never produced a roll bar anchor, but he DID invent and patent the concept... like it or not. But as I and others keep saying, anchor development is incremental, with slow improvements being applied to the designs of their predecessors.

Everyone is free to choose the one that works for them. If you don't think a vendor has rights to a design, buy someone else's and stop whinging. If there were patent infringements involved, one suspects that the manufacturers involved would deal with the issue... not the customers or mere internet experts who don't even have a dog in the fight.

Jim

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Factor

Nope got your point. That Viking copied Mantus.My point was that they copied Rocna/who copied Manson who copied SARCA. etc etc etc

Sorry, that wasn't my point. Guess you didn't get it.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sorry, that wasn't my point. Guess you didn't get it.

Apparently not. I apologise. When you said.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly
Sure looks like a patent lawsuit waiting to happen.

i thought you meant that there was a patent law suit waiting to happen. My bad. Sorry.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Factor

Apparently not. I apologise. When you said.

i thought you meant that there was a patent law suit waiting to happen.

Try following our discussion. I'm sure you can do it if you try really hard.

[Factor]

Anyway.

The following is not necessarily my views but is an interesting amalgam of many different view points I have seen on who copied who and why.

MANTUS is simply a Bugel derivative
BUGEL a Danforth with the fluke welded to the shank and a roll bar added.
DANFORTH FORTRESS BRITTANY BUGEL BRUCE (et al) Unweighted fluke anchors with crown at the heel or behind the heel in the case of the Bruce. Copied or simply all arrived at the same conclusion - who knows - who cares

There was a "SARCA Excel looks a bit like a delta (to the untrained eye) therefore is no better than a Delta", discussion amongst the untrained. Proper system based testing and the efforts of PANOPE on Cruisers Forum have shown that to be not the case, the EXCEL is a vastly different anchor with vastly better performance to the Delta.

Similarly the Viking might look like a MANTUS, but it is different. Viking have the crown, the junction of fluke and shank in the "correct" location It's likely that it the Viking will perform like a SARCA (et al) but time will tell whether it is strong enough. Viking have used high tensile steel which allows them a thinner fluke and saves weight. The Viking roll bar may or may not be strong enough - they would have been better to design with some form of brace from the roll bar to shank.

CQR, Delta, Spade, Rocna, Supreme, Excel all have ballast in the toe and all have the crown, the joint of shank and fluke ‘forward’ at least 30% forward from the heel.

The outlier is Mantus - an unballasted fluke anchor with its shank in the location of a ballasted fluke anchor. The MANTUS M2 has apparently not worked as intended. M2 - it will be interesting to see what they do to change it.

The idea that Mantus is a copy or in any way similar to Rocna - is wrong Rocna is very similar to a Spade, ballast in the toe, seem fluke shape (except the Spade has the ballast all focussed right in the toe. Basically Peter Smith copied Spade and because the ballast was not concentrated - added a roll bar. It seems he always wanted to copy a Spade and when patents etc ran out - made the Vulcan. I’m not sure Vulcan is right - I don’t know enough about it.

The Viking use high tensile steel (the same sort of steel as used in the shank of a Excel (and now SARCA) in the fluke (and saves weight)

. Have at it!!

[Izikalvo]

Originally Posted by Factor

Anyway.

The following is not necessarily my views but is an interesting amalgam of many different view points I have seen on who copied who and why.
. Have at it!!

Yep, and also see here, Spade S80 and Viking 10 flukes, almost identical.

As said all along, Viking studied and tested many anchor designs and made their own design relaying on their resoults which perform better, so far, but as usual, time will tell.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Factor

Anyway.

The following is not necessarily my views but is an interesting amalgam of many different view points I have seen on who copied who and why.
. Have at it!!

In your quote, there are at least a couple of errors.


"Rocna" refers to the Vulcan, not the normal Rocna, which has no ballast.


"Supreme" must be referring to the "Ultra".