Ways to Reduce Extreme Swing at Anchor

[KelseyB]

Hi all- I'm wondering if anyone has any tips on reducing an interesting problem my boat sometimes has on the hook. The first few times I anchored out, in an abundance of caution (and anxiety), I set an alarm every time the tide turned just to poke my head out of the cabin and make sure she was holding as she swung around. And I quickly noticed that, while every other boat I had ever known would swing around like normal, mine would play a weird game where, as the current weakened/became squirrely and the wind and tide perhaps began to fight, the boat would position itself so that the rode would run straight aft down the freeboards and sometimes even be entering the water all the way back near the companionway. It would be like she wanted to swing around and had gotten 90% of the way there, but was now facing backwards with stern facing the anchor. Eventually it would always sort itself out and the stern would walk around, but this happens pretty much every time the tide turns, can last up to an hour, and causes much anxiety about wrapping the keel or prop. And even when the rode behaves and runs forward, she still does a lot of hunting. I think it has to do with the shape of the boat- shallow full keel, and a freeboard that has a disproportionate amount of the surface area forward of the mast. I'm planning on fashioning a bridle for next time to see if that helps at all, but with how narrow the boat is, I'm not sure it will. Any other suggestions?

[JBP]

Some tricks for reducing sailing at anchor:

Reduce windage forward of your CLR (Center of Lateral Resistance, e.g. about where your keel is). Close your anchor locker hatch, remove your dinghy off the foredeck, etc.

INCREASE windage aft of your CLR. A riding sail can make a big difference. The idea with a traditional riding sail is to keep your boat a bit to one side of the wind. I also swing my boom out to one side which helps a little too. Ketchs can raise a reefed mizzen sail.

Move your CLR forward. Lashing my rudder off to one side helps my boat a lot. If you have a centerboard, it may or may not help to lower it, depending on your boats design.

Rig a bridle or a spring line so that your anchor pulls on one side. I sometimes attach a line to my rode and attach that line to a midship cleat to keep me at a slight angle to the wind.

Drop a very short scope anchor off your stern. This will drag around and help stop swing, but might not be a good idea in a tidal current.

[KelseyB]

Originally Posted by JBP

Move your CLR forward. Lashing my rudder off to one side helps my boat a lot. If you have a centerboard, it may or may not help to lower it, depending on your boats design.

My rudder is pretty oversized—everyone who's seen it calls it a "barn door"—so I usually lash it straight. Do you think it could backfire to lash an oversized rudder to one side, or do you think it would help more because of its size?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by KelseyB

My rudder is pretty oversized—everyone who's seen it calls it a "barn door"—so I usually lash it straight. Do you think it could backfire to lash an oversized rudder to one side, or do you think it would help more because of its size?

It really depends on the boat, so the only way to find out for sure is to try it.

When this was happening, what was the wind doing? Some boats move in strange ways when there's a noticeable current and a light wind (no wind it'll just follow the current, but it'll do weird stuff when you have both until the wind overpowers the current and makes the boat point to the wind).

[SV_FlyingTigress]

https://www.bannerbaymarine.com/inde...ct_detail&p=40

I have seen this FinDelta anchor sail well regarded.

[Shrew]

I've never seen a full keel get wrapped by the anchor rode. That is a potential issue with a fin keel.

At slack (high and low) boats will get confused if there is no wind. Sometimes the wind will oppose tide, if both equal, the boats may not spin immediately. This happens on moorings and you'll see the mooring ball hugging the hull several feet back from the bow.

Once either wind or tide increases the vessel will fall in line. This is not a problem to be solved.

As for 'wagging' or 'hunting', they all do this. Some more than others, but they all do this. It definitely looks more exaggerated on the vessel you're on as compared to the others you're observing around you, however they all do it.

Neither of these things are problems and there is not really a need to 'solve' anything here.

My standard tongue in cheek response to this is commonly..."If wagging or rolling at anchor is a problem, maybe an RV is more up your alley" LOL JK

good Luck.

[KelseyB]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

It really depends on the boat, so the only way to find out for sure is to try it.

When this was happening, what was the wind doing? Some boats move in strange ways when there's a noticeable current and a light wind (no wind it'll just follow the current, but it'll do weird stuff when you have both until the wind overpowers the current and makes the boat point to the wind).

Fair point

And it was most severe when I was anchoring in Georgia and South Carolina- so, strong tide. Strong enough that I could dip a pan over the side and it would come out clean. She would behave strangely usually when the wind was light or swirling around the creek, which I was expecting—just wasn't expect the extent of it

[Mike OReilly]

It sounds like your boat may be sailing up on the anchor chain the way mine sometimes does in strong currents. I believe it's due to my full keel actually generating lift from the current, and with the anchor fixed, my boat can move forward into the current.

This has happened to me only a few times, and always in places with strong current and little wind. I never found a solution, but it usually only lasted an hour or so. I suppose a stern anchor might help.

[KelseyB]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I've never seen a full keel get wrapped by the anchor rode. That is a potential issue with a fin keel.

At slack (high and low) boats will get confused if there is no wind. Sometimes the wind will oppose tide, if both equal, the boats may not spin immediately. This happens on moorings and you'll see the mooring ball hugging the hull several feet back from the bow.

Once either wind or tide increases the vessel will fall in line. This is not a problem to be solved.

As for 'wagging' or 'hunting', they all do this. Some more than others, but they all do this. It definitely looks more exaggerated on the vessel you're on as compared to the others you're observing around you, however they all do it.

Neither of these things are problems and there is not really a need to 'solve' anything here.

My standard tongue in cheek response to this is commonly..."If wagging or rolling at anchor is a problem, maybe an RV is more up your alley" LOL JK

good Luck.

Well that's good to hear I've never been genuinely concerned about wrapping the full keel, but it has crossed my mind. And it really isn't bothersome, but growing up on wide, heavy boats that never seemed to move around this much at anchor, I was just a little baffled by the extent of what I was seeing. But if it's not a problem to be solved, then that's that and I'll try not to worry about it!

[KelseyB]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

It sounds like your boat may be sailing up on the anchor chain the way mine sometimes does in strong currents. I believe it's due to my full keel actually generating lift from the current, and with the anchor fixed, my boat can move forward into the current.

This has happened to me only a few times, and always in places with strong current and little wind. I never found a solution, but it usually only lasted an hour or so. I suppose a stern anchor might help.

That makes a LOT of sense, I'd never considered that before. This usually happened when the tide had recently turned but was now flowing again, in high-current areas, with little wind. Sometimes she'd face into the current and be up-current of the anchor with the rode running aft, sometimes she'd face stern-to the current and be down-current of the anchor with the rode running aft. So that could be an explanation for at least the first of those two situations. I think for the second, the shape of the keel, the size of the rudder, and the hard chines may have just been preventing her from turning around...

[KelseyB]

Originally Posted by Stephen_MO

https://www.bannerbaymarine.com/inde...ct_detail&p=40

I have seen this FinDelta anchor sail well regarded.

Do you know of a good one for smaller boats? Mine's only 30 feet, so this would probably be an actual sail for me!

Edit: I didn't actually check before writing this- they do have one. My bad!

[JPA Cate]

I would think a riding sail would help a lot: it will keep the boat responding more to the wind than the sweep of the current.

In all honesty, Kelsey, we have mostly quit anchoring where we might get tide-rode; it isn't worth the hassle. But if you like those kinds of places, there are other things you can do.

For instance, if you prefer to lie to the tide, you can deploy a small sea anchor astern, weighted, so it stays in the water, and it will keep you bows to the tidal flow. It wreaks havoc with ventilation below, though.

However, the riding sail is very simple to make for yourself: it is utterly flat, and will work in very light air, as well as heavier.

What you are describing is what we first encountered in La Paz, BCS, and there it was called the La Paz Waltz. As the boats with different under and upper bodies are affected some, more by the wind, others more by the tidal flow, they do go all every which way. We don't like getting blown up over our chain, because it then chafes the ablative bottom paint. Had a friend who stopped his boat's dancing at anchor by deploying a small parachute anchor off the bow, but it was not a tidal flow situation, just dancing in the breeze typical of the location.


Ann

[Sam Woodbridge]

KelseyB - I’ll seem to 100% agree with what Ann says (JPA Cate)

I had the same problem many years ago with my first sailboat. Unfortunately I never did 100% figure it out. It was a 1990 (I think on the year) Beneteau first 30. It would happen on occasion in a area that was like a big round pond with a small channel of saltwater flowing in. I had 30 foot of chain and the rest rope. If the conditions where right that thing would swing around and keel wrapped that rope. The wind would pick up. The water would slap against the side of the boat. Had the anchor drag too.

Looking back comparing it to what I have now. I have 250 foot of 3/8th chain and over sized anchor. For me I think having that heavy chain was the game changer. You know the other thing. I never knew if the anchor rope on my old boat was the correct kind of rope either. And for goodness sake! I was so NEW to boating and so SCARD that I might drag. I was alway out a scope 5 to 1 or more. I don’t know. And this is not a anchor scope question!

I like what Ann says you know. I didn’t know other boats suffered this same thing either. I feel your pain. But lots of good ideas in this thread!

Sam

[s/v Jedi]

I believe the OP is describing behavior in current, not sailing back and forth behind the anchor that happens even without any current.

The only real solution for this is the Bahamian Moor https://www.anchoring.com/blogs/anch...rs-off-the-bow

For sailing back and forth, a riding sail https://www.sailrite.com/Using-an-An...MaAlJ2EALw_wcB

[KelseyB]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I believe the OP is describing behavior in current, not sailing back and forth behind the anchor that happens even without any current.

The only real solution for this is the Bahamian Moor https://www.anchoring.com/blogs/anch...rs-off-the-bow

For sailing back and forth, a riding sail https://www.sailrite.com/Using-an-An...MaAlJ2EALw_wcB

That's 100% it. I agree with what everyone else is saying, but I think this might be the golden ticket. Most of the places this was happening were tidal cuts and the like—small creeks off the ICW (which also made it tricky, because the way she was behaving made me want to let out more rode, but the narrowness of the creek made me want less!). When anchored somewhere more open, it's always been less of an issue, although still happens on occasion.

That's also probably the best explanation for the Bahamian Moor I've ever seen- only issue now is I'd need to invest in a real second anchor