What Size Anchor

[Cheechako]

I would buy a 35# +/- as a second anchor. I think in a Delta that would be a 33#? The other option is a Fortress I suppose. Is the second anchor's use mainly if you loose the first?

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by JonJo

After millions of posts on modern anchors on internet forum, 100's of articles published in hard copy in the last 8 years, $1,000s spent on hard copy and electronic advertising (look at the anchor adverts on CF) and more $1,000s spent at boat shows it is interesting that people still want to buy a Delta.

As a second anchor, which is what is being considered, then we all carry a Fortress - its difficult to see why you would choose anything else. On a 30' yacht locker space is at a premium, they almost never have 2 bow rollers and an alloy is much easier to manouvre on a small yacht (and dinghy)- what's to argue about (or an alloy Spade).

It would be interesting to know what the primary anchor is - or did I miss that? If its an old gen anchor - I'd re-think the priorities.

Jonathan

This is a good point. (primary anchor?)
I still like the Deltas though. Would I buy one if money were no object? No... i'd try one of the new gen anchors. If money was an object and I got a good one cheap. Yes I'd use a Delta again. I know it's limitations now!

[JonJo]

There is nothing wrong with a Delta, except its been overtaken by improvements in design and the availability of better or different steels (and those improvements are still being introduced). The Delta was introduced at a time when GPS accuracy was 100 yards, carbon fibre had not been introduced for either sails or resin reinforcement (I think?) and mobile (cell) phones were the size of a house brick with a battery life of a very few hours. Times have changed.

Some newer designs might be more expensive, than the Delta, but on a cost per night those extra $ are simply insignificant and the improvement in performance factorial.

Jonathan

[Hank Kivett]

I really appericate the response on this...again my though was and as i have been informed by a few old salts here that as i venture south from NC to south Fla that as i move down the coast my present anchor will see less duty and the reason is the bottom material changes to a more sandy for which certain anchors do not do well; therefore, my goal was to aquire a second anchor and as i preceed down the coat it would become my primiary...now i am not set on a Delta that just what has been mentioned...so i am locked into anyone type or size thats why i am posting this is to get a feeling from all of u that have gone before me who are much wisher than I...

[JonJo]

Your Rocna will serve you well in most sand or muddy seabed. You will find that it lifts cloying or compactable mud - but people using the Rocna see this as a virtue as they think it demonstrates its setting ability. Rocnas can be defeated by medium weed - as it clogs the fluke. However weed is the achilles heel of most anchor especially smaller varieties that simply do not have the weight to penetrate. The answer to heavy weed is avoid it - or find the sand patches (that appear pale vs the weed dark) and anchor in sand.

People are using Rocna as a main anchor all over the world and in a variety of seabeds and you would be most unusual to have need to change your anchor as a result of variations in seabed. Mind you people use a Delta all over the world as well and many still swear by them.

However a Fortress is unbeatable in sand. Its unbeatable if you need to deploy by hand and or from a dinghy. As long as you buy one sized for your yacht it is incredibly light and even assembled it is easy to store. It has a 25 year history of success, virtually every long distance cruising yacht has one in the inventory, 100s of thousands have been sold (vs a few thousand for many new designs).

I would not stray more than a days passage from 'home' without a second anchor. Anchors are lost (they jamb on something on the seabed, the shackle undoes itself etc). Yacht do run aground (and a kedge is worth its weight in gelcoat then). You might find the need to deploy 2 anchors if your Rocna looks a bit questionable).

having a second anchor with the same attributes of the first introduces wasted redundancy when you could add to the characteristics of your anchor wardrobe with an alternative but accepted design. There are options to a Fortress, alloy Spade for example (also an excellent design and another I could endorse).

Jonathan

[Kashmir cat]

I've had an aluminum Spade anchor as my second anchor for the last 15 years. A Spade A100 on my old 46 foot #55,000 monohull and a Spade A140 on my catamaran I own now (along with a Spade A80 beach anchor as well). The advantage of an aluminum Spade as your second is that it performs great in sand as well as other substrates and is easily deployed by dinghy or in the case of the A100 or A80 by swimming them out. The Fortress is obviously a great anchor too but has 2 main disadvantages: it doesn't fit on a bow roller very well, and it has sharp edges.
Ease of deployment of your second anchor is of primary importance because it doesn't do you any good staying on deck. Your Rocna will work great in most bottoms including sand. Adding a 15 pound Spade A80 to your quiver would give you the ability to deploy a second anchor easily and more often. Although new Spade anchors are ridiculously over priced, I just picked up a like new used A80 on Craigslist for $200.00.

[Cormorant]

Fortresses have incredible holding power in one direction, but may have trouble resetting after a wind or current change. . . . Just something to keep in mind. The new generation anchors are much better at resetting.

[Cheechako]

Te Delta was great Florida on south to Trinidad in 3 different boats. The thing just lands upright and digs in. The down side is they pull out in a big windshift . To me the most important thing in an anchor is that it set easily and resets in a windshift. I dont get too much excited about ultimate holding power. The Danforth/Fortress is king in that regard.
If any of the new anchors re set reliably in a wind shift, that's what I would buy. I've not seen any proof that they do, but maybe it's out there.

[phantomracer]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Te Delta was great Florida on south to Trinidad in 3 different boats. The thing just lands upright and digs in. The down side is they pull out in a big windshift . To me the most important thing in an anchor is that it set easily and resets in a windshift. I dont get too much excited about ultimate holding power. The Danforth/Fortress is king in that regard.
If any of the new anchors re set reliably in a wind shift, that's what I would buy. I've not seen any proof that they do, but maybe it's out there.

That's why I bought the Spade anchor. They don't pull out in a wind shift. They usually dig deeper. That's the idea anyway. I used mine a couple times and it sure worked a lot better than the cqr. It was fully buried deep and hard to get out.

Practical Sailor did a test recently which gave it high marks in wind/current shift.

[Hank Kivett]

I keep reading on here about the "New Generation of Anchors" which anchors are we referring too...Keep in mind I am an idiot when it comes to anchors and the different types so you have to speak slowly and in simple terms....

[kbudd]

I just bought a brand new 55 lb Delta on ebay for $150. I wanted to get a Rocna or Manson but they will not fit under my bowsprit with the roll bar. I had a 35 lb Delta on my previous boat and it never dragged and always set. Deltas are great anchors especially when you consider price.

[Cormorant]

Originally Posted by Hank Kivett

I keep reading on here about the "New Generation of Anchors" which anchors are we referring too..

I think they would include, in no particular order

Manson Supreme
Manson Boss
Rocna
Spade
Sarca Excel
. . . maybe a couple others

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Hank Kivett

I keep reading on here about the "New Generation of Anchors" which anchors are we referring too...Keep in mind I am an idiot when it comes to anchors and the different types so you have to speak slowly and in simple terms....

Read Peter Smith series of articles on anchors and anchoring - you'll be a lot smarter when you are done. Do keep in mind that he invented the Rocna anchor, so there is some bias, but his discussion is good and generally unbiased.

Here's the link:
Anchors and Anchoring

[JonJo]

I think the term 'New generation' was coined by Peter Smith and he then defined it in such a way that only his anchor fitted the definition.

It is unfortunately a misleading term as the word 'new' means different things to different people.

However since the end of the 1980's or early 90's some anchors have been introduced that have a 'holding capacity' approximately 2 times, or greater, than those anchors that were available previously. The older anchors, including those that have survived the test of time included Bruce, Danforth, CQR, Bugel and Delta. There are many clones of these but few other designs survived.

The more recent anchors borrowed much from developments in the past, for example Spade, Rocna and Excel all borrow the Delta shank of the mid 80's, all the roll bar anchors copy a 1970 British Patent of Peter Bruce and more recently the Rocna top surface, its upper fluke plate, is a copy of the upper surface of the Spade. Consequently there are no 'new' designs - simply improvements and use of old designs. (There is nothing wrong with this - its the way it works and has done for centuries.)

The 'new' part really refers to mixing some of these advantageous features and developing something that is better than was available previously.

The other major change has been the availability of newer or better raw materials at sensible prices. This has allowed anchors with very thin shanks to be produced but with strengths unheard of in the past. The use of newer materials and much better engineering is the basis for the Fortress success - that took an old design and made it factorially better.

Design still does not stand still and there are developments always being introduced. Some developments do not work but the internet has provided a vehicle that ensures mistakes are soon aired, usually rectified but usually the rectification takes too long - designers are human and are reluctant to admit they made a mistake.

Jonathan

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by JK n Smitty

You can not use general rules for anchor sizing. It is all specific to the brand you are going to buy and the specifics of your boat. Go to the manufacturers website and find out what they recommend. Lewmar recommends a 14 to 22 lb anchor depending on the conditions and specifics of the boat when using a delta style but recommends a 20 to 25 lb anchor for a CQR style.

Also, what is the use of the anchor? If you are looking for a lunch hook that can be smaller. If you are planning to go cruising and stay at anchor then that is different.

And let's not even get on the subject of why you would pick a delta over a new generation anchor.

Good advice here. Second anchor (not primary) might be smaller. I use my secondary to kedge out to avoid swinging onto a beach or as a picnic hook. Use the anchor vendor sizing and pick the size up if in doubt. If this will be your primary, size up. If you only use your boat on day trips & lunch stops, do you really need another anchor? (other than a spare is nice)