What windlass for a 22 ton cutter which will be anchoring a lot?

[Cheechako]

Surprisingly I found that vertical windlasses were far better than the horizontals I had. They feed trouble free, and they grip the chain for almost double the length a horizontal does. No over rides or jumps. Personally I wouldn't go any other way.

[Mithril Bham]

I have similar weight & roller configuration. Love my Ideal Model B. Found support to be great.

[Dave22q]

you might have better luck going with a 24 V windlass

[Methersgate]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Surprisingly I found that vertical windlasses were far better than the horizontals I had. They feed trouble free, and they grip the chain for almost double the length a horizontal does. No over rides or jumps. Personally I wouldn't go any other way.

Thank you for posting that - it’s really interesting. I had been worried about the alignment of a vertical axle gypsy/wildcat with the bow roller, which is perhaps five or six inches above the deck. I do absolutely see the point of them.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Methersgate

Thank you for posting that - it’s really interesting. I had been worried about the alignment of a vertical axle gypsy/wildcat with the bow roller, which is perhaps five or six inches above the deck. I do absolutely see the point of them.

Yes, I was staunchly a horizontal thinker... then I bought a boat with a vertical. Then my next 2 boats were vertical. All mine were Maxwell. I also decided in lieu of those footswitches, that standing back there isn't all that good for anchoring. I like to see the rode or anchor coming up for kelp or mud or etc. So I used a pendent switch on a cable. I just bought a heavy duty, but small , switch from Graingers meant for industrial cranes.
A Horizontal engages maybe 2 links of chain, which is why they tend jump at times etc. A vertical engages twice that and feed chain right thru the hawse.

[JOHNMARDALL]

Congratulations on acquiring that lovely boat. Our recommended process for selecting a windlass is to take the total weight of the ground tackle (rode+anchor) and multiply that by three to calculate the required pulling power of the windlass.
Example: Assume all chain rode as you're planning to anchor out a lot and, with that boat, presumably will do some serious cruising


100 metres of 12 mm chain plus 55 kilogram anchor gives:
Step One (100 X 3.3 kg/mtr)=330 kg of chain + 55 kg of anchor = 385 kg of ground tackle
Step Two 385 kg X 3 =1155 kgf of pulling power


Suitable 12 volt windlasses include:


Vertical shaft: small profile on deck (gearbox and motor below deck), can be ordered with chainwheel/gypsy only, or with warping drum mounted on top of chainwheel/gypsy. 180 degrees of chain-chainwheel engagement. Requires one windlass for each chain rode

Maxwell VWC2500
Maxwell VWC3500 (probably overkill)



Horizontal shaft - large profile with entire mechanism on deck. Can be ordered with two chainwheels, or one chainwheel and one warping drum. 90 degrees of chain-chainwheel engagement. If ordered with two chainwheels, one windlass can handle two chain rodes

Maxwell HRC2500
Maxwell HRC3500 (probably overkill)


For each rode you will also need a bow roller and a chain-stopper. If you intend to keep the inner forestay and pull-down mechanism. you'll need to position a vertical windlass to one side of it and then align the bow roller to feed the windlass. A horizontal windlass will be positioned with its centerline on the pull-down centerline. Also think through the position of the windlass relative to the chain-locker - ideally the chain should drop at the aft end of the locker (the deepest part).


Take a look at the Vetus website (www.vetus.com) - Anchoring Systems, which has a bunch of charts and tables about all the parts and pieces of these systems


I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me direct for more information (jmardall@comcast.net). If you have a question that I can't answer, I'll connect you with one of our windlass gurus, either here in the States or at world windlass headquarters in New Zealand.


All the best
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment

[Mithril Bham]

Ideal confiiguration

[Lodbrog1]

This is my second Ideal Windlass on different boats but truly would have none other....especially when the parts are fairly universal (easily replaced) at most auto parts stores.

[briblack]

IMHO
Horizontal, because seals installed in a horizontal position leak salt water into the gearbox.
A design that lets you check and change the oil easily.
Sealed motor, not in the chain locker. Too wet in there for electrical components.
A good manual mode. You'll need it, someday.
I like Lofrans. Litehouse also looks good.

[Mike Banks]

I would use a good quality windlass using a hydraulic motor driven from an electric clutch connected hydraulic pump mounted on and driven by the main engine.

Wire the electric clutch relay through a remote switch mounted alongside the windlass on a waterproof lidded control panel which also incorporates a forward/reverse/neutral hydraulic control for the hydraulic motor.

Run steel high pressure pipes and proper flexible hydraulic couplings to transfer high pressure hydraulic oil to the motor, and on the exhaust side of the motor, a small radiator to cool the low pressure oil as it returns to its reservoir also via steel ands flexible hydraulic hoses..

Use 13 mm short link chain. You will be using anchors of about eighty pounds in weight if you wish to do any sleeping. That means a heavy windlass and a properly reinforced foredeck. The word Lofrans springs to mind.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Mike Banks

I would use a good quality windlass using a hydraulic motor driven from an electric clutch connected hydraulic pump mounted on and driven by the main engine.

Wire the electric clutch relay through a remote switch mounted alongside the windlass on a waterproof lidded control panel which also incorporates a forward/reverse/neutral hydraulic control for the hydraulic motor.

Run steel high pressure pipes and proper flexible hydraulic couplings to transfer high pressure hydraulic oil to the motor, and on the exhaust side of the motor, a small radiator to cool the low pressure oil as it returns to its reservoir also via steel ands flexible hydraulic hoses..

Use 13 mm short link chain. You will be using anchors of about eighty pounds in weight if you wish to do any sleeping. That means a heavy windlass and a properly reinforced foredeck. The word Lofrans springs to mind.

Good grief, Mike! Why in the world would one go to such extreme expense and complexity to accomplish what is so simple as the electric windlass installation?

This seems like bad advice to me. If there were already a hydraulic pump on the engine, then perhaps it would be sensible, but as it stands, IMO not a useful solution to the OP's situation.

Please explain the advantage to your proposal. Or was it meant as a joke, and I'm too dense to get it?

Jim

[keithw88]

I have a 20 ton ketch, fitted by the PO with a 24volt Lofrans Falkon. It works well with my 40 kg Rocna and hi-tech Cromox s/s 10mm chain and coped with the previous heavy (50 kg?/) "Brake??" anchor with ancient half-inch galv chain (both rodes 100ms, and I use 100% chain plus a good long snubber).
HOWEVER! - if I ever have to jetison my main rode, my back-up is far from ideal. I have a second 40 kg anchor on the port roller (a Vulcan, not least because fitting two Rocnas onto my bow would be extremely difficult). I have 10ms of chain for that anchor and 100ms plus of rope, but these are not installed ready for use. I am confident I could get that lot over the bow to anchor, but that set-up isn't as secure as the main rode.
For my back-up to match my main set-up, I would need a second chain locker and a second chain-wheel on the anchor winch. The former would entail losing the port bunk in the forward cabin and the latter would mean swapping my rope warping drum for a chain-wheeel - but I frequently need to warp in mooring lines (for stern-to Med mooring).
A question for those in Aus/ZN/South Pacific; do you reckon a warping-drum is necessary in that part of the world (where I will be going soon) - and how about US/ Canada sailors, what do you think? If so, do we (ie, all of us who want to have a fully-capable back-up set-up) need to buy TWO winches per Maxwell/Vetus's recommendation - or go to a Lofrans Titan or somesuch with two chain-wheels and a drum on top?
Another aspect - the guage of wiring needed for a big anchor winch is heavy enough for 24 volts - for 12 volts it will be very difficult to do the wiring.
And a final point which comes to mind; a bow-thruster needs a similar amount of power, so I suggest planning for an anchor winch (or two!) should consider the power requirement of a suitable bow-thruster. With my arrangement, I could operate both at the same time, but if I did I would expect dangerous over-heating somewhere in my electrics; having a separate battery-bank up forward would reduce this risk and is worth considering...

[Emmalina]

Lofrans Tigres had it 15 years now and only just put a new gypsy on it. We are 24tons and use a Rocna 33kg + 100m 10m g4 Struggles a bit if we anchor in more than 20m but has been great !

[Methersgate]

Just to clarify a bit; if I were replacing the engine I would certainly go for an hydraulic windlass, but it’s absolutely not worth disturbing a good and quite young engine and gearbox for it, so no hydraulics. Likewise the boat is well wired for 12v; if I were doing it again I would go for 24v but I’m not. The house bank is six Rolls batteries and the cable run to the foredeck is about seven metres, so I plan on using the house bank for the windlass. I could put a separate battery right forward and have 24v for the windlass but since one expects to run the engine when getting the anchor that would involve quite a big step up transformer. As it is, if I run the windlass off the house bank I reckon I should be able to get under way under sail, which I like to do sometimes.

So 12v windlass.

[Nicholson58]

Our Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch is close to 40 tons loaded. The windlass is a Maxwell 3500 horizontal installed below deck in a bow locker. Chain is 7/16 G4 X 320 feet. Anchor is Rocna 121 #. We had to modify the pulpit for the rollbar. It was hard on everything to pull the anchor shank over the standard roller’s small diameter so I made a replacement of Nylatron pulley 10 inch diameter. Our secondary anchor is a 54# Bruce. It has a short chain and 600 feet of three strand. It’s fluke wraps nicely around the bow. It hasn’t been used in four years. The Rocna is boss and never fails to set hard. Biggest problem is the locker size. It seems large but the chain piles up against the hawse pipe so someone has to be below to distribute the chain.

We used an Anchor Forerunner Fittings | Anchor Marine & Industrial Supply instead of the SS boat jewelry. 7/16 or 1/2 inch is the smallest you will find. This passes nicely ober the bow roller without stressing the swivel link. It is what is used on commercial and military vessels including the Enterprise. Ours is high strength and galvanized. About 180 dollars. Also found it at Washington chain.

If there is a way you can find to move your anchor locker close to the front of the mast and in the bilge it will greatly improve the way the boat handles in adverse sea states. This will go a long way towards a dryer deck. We submarine a lot in seas over 6 feet. I have considered using a piece of large fiberglass pipe vertically installed from the bilge to the deck as a new locker.

Anchor Forerunner