What's Wrong With a Primary Stern Anchor?

[Saline]

I solo sail a traditional sailboat.
I sail onto and off of anchor most of the time.
The CLR is aft but the windage is forward, resulting in a lot of roaming at anchor (yes, there are options to try to address this like riding sail and/or a bucket on the rode).

I am considering adding a strong roller aft (a bit like a diminutive pinky stern platform) and using it for my primary anchor.

Pluses that I imagine:
-Roaming should be eliminated as the boat will naturally want to align with the wind and pivot at the correct spot to prevent broadsiding when the wind shifts
- The weight of the anchor and chain would be distributed to a better part of the boat (fatter/greater waterplane and shorter distance from center of buoyancy)
- The anchor could be better set using the jib to dig it in instead of just drifting back
- There would no longer be that awkward period between the hook coming of the seabed and gaining control of the drift (as you would not be in irons pointed downwind and so would be immediately sailing).
-All of the controls needed for both maneuvers would be in the cockpit, so no more running along the deck dragging my tether along

Potential problems (and why they might not matter):
-Potential for damage to the rudder (I believe that a strong brake used to keep the rudder directly on the midline should largely prevent this).
-Most boats would have a lot of wave slap (but I'm looking at adding this to a double-ender)
-The chain being closer to the propeller (The propeller is in an apeture and I run the engine but in neutral during anchoring. I would prefer not to lose the option to back up to the anchor to not have to haul it in manually in extremis, so maybe different techniques could be used to round off to the side of the anchor and take up the slack as the boat drifts back down?).

So, what problems am I missing? Am I underestimating the issues/overestimating the benefits?

Thanks, for the input!

[Stu Jackson]

Sounds like you got 'em all.



'Cept one: if it works, how come you'd be the only one doing it?


And it's not because they put anchor lockers and windlasses in the front.


Oh, and when and how do you get your sails up when the anchor is up?

[Saline]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

'Cept one: if it works, how come you'd be the only one doing it?

Yeah, that's why I haven't already done it And why I'm asking here.

I could argue that the tradition started on crewed boat with tansoms where the benefits are lessened and the drawbacks can be catastrophic, but I wouldn't want to overlook a good universal reason.

As far as how to get the sails up, the staysail would be raised prior to weighing anchor, but not hardened until after. The main would be raised later once aways from shallows/other boats in the anchorage

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Saline, without knowing how your double ender is rigged (furlers forward?) and whether she is full keel or cutaway forefoot? it is hard to guess (at least for me) how she will behave. And of course you can find that out by trial and error.

However, the breeze will flow the wrong way through the boat, making it hotter when it is hot out; and it may blow out your galley cooking fire. (None of our sailboats have liked the breeze astern position.)

With trying to get the hook up will be hard if you accidentally lose oil pressure (we did once from a chafed through hose to an oil pressure gauge). In fact, it may not be possible till the wind drops out, and then you'll still have to figure out how to move the boat to fix it (unless you always carry at least one oil change with you). Does your dinghy have a motor that would be suitable to hip-tie the dinghy to motor the big boat along.

It is convenient to have a stern anchor roller, though, and it greatly facilitates anchoring bow and stern. It can be fun for kids to spinnaker "fly", with the boat anchored from astern.

I would think more in terms of helping your boat not dance quite so much at anchor. If she already has all chain rode, then I'd look at a riding sail. Inexpensive and easy to make your own, and full and fin keel boats can benefit from them. (Removing the staysail may help, too, and is fairly quick to re-hoist if you can count on light enough mornings, otherwise, it's not much fun to do at anchor.)

If your boat has a cutaway forefoot, and furlers full, that forward windage will increase her tendency to dance at anchor.

Honestly, especially in terms of sailing off the hook, it will be much easier to retain the bow to windward position, and much easier to position the boat among others anchored nearby, if you continue to anchor from the bow.

Recommend keeping the bow primary anchoring position. Try riding sail.

Ann

[TrentePieds]

Saline:

Even boats of "traditional" model will range when anchored by the head if they have been "improved" by having roller furling gear fitted. Do what I do in a "modern" 30-footer with fin keel and unskegged spade rudder - do a "combo" :-)

I come to position going forward, and I haul out the rode required for a scope of seven from the chain locker and flake it on deck while doing so. I then go "up'n'down" at my position and back down slowly relying on set and drift if there is any, else using the engine. While doing so I pay out all the rode and snub and set the hook, in my case a 33lb Bruce, and belay the rode on the "samson post", in my case a cleat.

I then come forward either "hand over hand" or using engine, taking in 5 fathoms of rode hand over hand and leaving the slack on deck. Using this slack I bring the rode aft, outboard of the rigging, and belay with a bollard hitch on a sheet winch. The five fathoms is little enuff of a bight that it cannot reach to foul rudder or propeller should I inadvertently drop it. As the boat sets and drifts, the rode goes taut, the boat swings and lies quarter to the wind, perfectly still, with no ranging at all.

Lying thus, ventilation is improved because the open companionway acts as a wind scoop.

HOWEVER, this way of anchoring should not be used in the very, very small number of cases when the weather is hard enuff that you might take a dollop over the transom while anchored. But when that is the case, your boat will not range, anyway, when lying head to wind due to the much greater tension on the rode, and the "straightening" effect that tension has.

Give it a go and see if it will work for you. Remember that along with many other things we do, the business of anchoring over the bows is a holdover from square rigger and gaff rigger days. It was the best way to do it then, but our "ships" are not like the ships of yore, and we are free to deviate from the practices of yesteryear if it suit us!

All the best :-)

TrentePieds

[JebLostInSpace]

I would have a concern about your plan to sail off the anchor with it deployed from the stern. I haven't seen your particular setup, but when I visualize it, it seems diffficult:

With the head downwind, you need to make sternway to approach the anchor. If you have the staysail up before doing so, I imagine you are adding a lot of force fighting you. Even with the sail trimmed to spill wind, I imagine it would be tough to pull against in anything over a few knots of wind. It is very difficult to fully depower a sail when the head is straight downwind.

If you use the engine to back up to the anchor, I would start to worry about fouling the prop with the rode. I'm sure there are ways to work around this, but it seems like a risk as soon as something unexpected happens when raising the anchor. And of course, that's the moment you'll really want to be able to use the engine to maneuver.

I also think that the moment of drifting you describe when anchored off the bow - between when the anchor lifts off the ground and when you begin to make headway - could be considered a feature rather than a bug. Those few seconds with the boat barely moving give you time to bring the anchor up to the bow roller, or at least closer to it. If you are sailing the instant the anchor breaks free, you now have to navigate, trim, and get onto a point you can keep for a minute or two before recovering the anchor. During that time I suspect it is more likely to foul on something because you didn't have several seconds to at least reduce the length of the remaining rode before you picked up speed.

Just some thoughts from someone who's never actually tried it. If you do go for it, it's probably worth practicing a few times in a nice open anchorage on a light day.

[Clivevon]

Interesting question. I dont think that anchoring by the stern will necessarily solve your problem.
You say that "The CLR is aft but the windage is forward". The density of sea water is about 800 times that of air. Logically I would therefore expect that the potential pressure per square metre exerted by 1 knot of tidal current on your underwater hull cross section, effective at the boats centre of lateral resistance, would be 800 times the potential pressure per square metre exerted by 1 knot of wind on your total above water windage area. I realise the windage area will be a lot more than the underwater cross section, but still, you might find that you are still sailing around your anchor when moored by the stern.
An alternative to a riding sail would be to drag a loop of chain across the sea bed to dampen the sailing - but that might not be such a good idea in some areas, maybe causing extra damage to the seabed.
Or try putting a spring on your anchor cable - but you will have to switch that to the other side when the tide changes maybe.

[Oeanda]

My former sailboat had a stern anchor and the thing I hated about it was that we always ended up with a chilly breeze right up the bum which made things fairly miserable at anchor. I’d often carry the line around to the bow cleat to solve the issue, but it felt haywire. Of course the OP might live somewhere warm where a breeze to the living area would be more welcome (?).

[Saline]

Thanks for the replies.

I had forgotten to consider the airflow through the cabin. I have always read that the natural direction that air wants to flow, even bow to wind, is from the companionway forward, so I would have thought that # of air exchanges would actually increase stern to with the dodger acting as a windscoop.

That being said, if there is rain I would not want to be in this orientation; having to keep the companionway closed whenever there is precipitation is enough for me to kibosh the whole idea. Valuable feedback from ppl who weren't comfortable in this orientation!

I also haven't sailed in salt water with tidal currents yet, so thanks for that feedback too. (Although that triggers: "does anybody have information on how fractional sloops with forward fin keels perform under bow anchor in tidal rips?")

JPA, what do you mean when you say that none of your boats liked wind from abaft? Also, I'm not understanding the link between losing engine function and having to retrieve the anchor from one end or the other as being any worse than the other - can you elaborate please?

Jeb, I think you misunderstand my intent in sailing off. I always have the mainsail up already when leaving bow to. The staysail is smaller and can point directly downwind at all times so I don't understand how there would be more drag. Also, the issue isn't the drift, which will be the same in both conditions, it is the lack of control that one has when drifting in irons and the need to overcome the drift before being able to sail that I currently experience whereas downwind you are already oriented in a controlled position and can harden the sheets whenever needed.

I will have to experiment with snubbing the chain from my current bow position off to various strongpoints to experiment with the results although that will not provide feedback on the actual weighing anchor challenges.

(I suppose that I wasn't too clear in my initial post. I know there are ways to mitigate the boat hunting at anchor and this wasn't my primary concern; thinking about why it was hunting in the first place made me think of how the source could be eliminated, not just managed. This in turn led me to realize the other potential advantages, which in turn led to my curiosity about why it is not done.)

[thinwater]

• All of the weather (rain) blows in the companionway and a dodger won't help. You can soak the cabin fast if you don't wake up in time, or even if you are slow getting the boards back in. No ventilation on rainy nights.
• Rougher ride. If there are waves, you have no pointy end to part them.

And the other stuff people mentioned. Backing up to recover the anchor horrible; you will want to pivot and recover it over the bow.


I've anchored from the stern several times, on several boats. A bad idea.


There is also NO actual advantage for the singlehander (I singlehand most of the time), and it is actually more difficult. Which is why you don't see it much.

[Shrew]

You're going to anchor primarily from the stern? OR are you proposing a bow and stern anchor? I would think that would be a lot of force slamming the rudder around. I'm also not clear how that would reduce the boat 'wag'.

All in all, I don't see the initial problem. The boat wags at anchor. They all do. Look at a time lapse of an anchorage or a mooring field. You're trying to stop basic physics.

[Paul Howard]

There were quite a few sailboats built with masts up in the bows, like the Nonsuch catboats, Freedoms, Hunter Visions, etc. that had a lot of windage forward. Even some centercockpit ketches with the mainmast forward and mid-ships cockpit enclosures ranged around at anchor a great deal and owners tried anchoring from the stern. I know some owners that regularly anchored from the stern as the boat remained much quieter with stern to the wind with all that mast windage forward.
Every boat lies different, all you can do is try it. Wind against tide situations at anchor are always problematic no matter what the configuration.

[MicHughV]

What does your boat do when you are backing up ??
You feel pressure on the rudder don't you....
If you let go the wheel or tiller, what will happen ??....
The rudder will bang over....right ".

Same thing will happen when you anchor from the stern. Unless you lock the wheel exactly dead center, it's gonna wander all of the place...

Anyway, give it a try and let us know how it works for you.

[JPA Cate]

JPA, what do you mean when you say that none of your boats liked wind from abaft? Also, I'm not understanding the link between losing engine function and having to retrieve the anchor from one end or the other as being any worse than the other - can you elaborate please?

.

You caught me out, mate! I wrote unclearly. I should have said I didn't like the stove blowing out. Didn't like cold wind coming in from astern, and unless you have a downwind rain awning or a companionway flap, rain coming in, or snow, or ashes from cane field fires...phooey on them all.

If you have no engine at the moment, and the breeze is from astern, how are you going to recover the anchor? Although not particularly heavy for her length, our boat has so much windage that one would not like to try to simply haul her up to windward, although you could probably do so with your primary winches, in light airs. Then, with the anchor clear of the bottom, you could rush forward to hoist the headsail, avoid hitting anyone else in the anchorage, and then finish getting the anchor up. And hope you don't get snagged on something --like an old mooring, or a snag on the bottom.


All in all, I think it is easier to hoist the main with the boat head to wind, raise and secure the anchor, timing it so she falls off on the desired tack, and if she is a mainsail driven boat, she'll be able to get way on quickly, and then the rudder will work (it does need water flow over it to do so). It depends a lot on how your boat behaves, but if you leave the mainsheet loose, but cleated, it will get some drive when you let the heat fall off. Once the main is sheeted in and trimmed right, then the head sail can be set, and trimmed. There will be less to-ing and fro-ing to finish up with the anchor.

Ymmv. Boats behave differently from each other. Nothing wrong with giving anchoring by the stern a try and seeing how you like it. It's possible Trente Pieds method will work for your boat: his is a [heavy] 30 ft. steelie, so a heavy displacement boat for it's length, and iirc, she is also a full keel boat.

Ann

[MicHughV]

I have on occasion anchored backwards to do some spinnaker flying...not sure if anyone is familiar in doing this...
basically I turn the boat around, so that the stern is to the wind.
Then I hoist the spinnaker...the two sheet lines are fastened to a wood seat. A third line is attached from one clew to the boat. Another line is attached to the other clew and left to dangle in the water.
I set the spinnaker so that it can't come crashing into the boat.
We then dive into the water, pull on the dangling line to bring the spinnaker down, and sit or stand on the seat. Depending on wind strength and your weight, up you go, and you can stay on or dive off. If you get nervous, somebody can pull on the dangling line to bring you back down.
5-10 knots of wind is the target wind range.
Will be glad to post pics.