Who’s Using a Manual Windlass for Daily Anchoring (and Liking It!)?

[4arch]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and I have to say there are some compelling arguments here on both sides.

The laying more chain argument is to me the most compelling on the pro-electric windlass side. It's a somewhat different take on the issue than looking at it just from the perspective of how much power the windlass has or how much stamina the operator has. It gets into the territory of how the type of device affects one's psychology. I'd like to think I'd put out a proper scope regardless of the equipment being used to retrieve it - but in truth I can't say I've never been made nervous at the realization that I'd have nothing to rely on but my own strength to retrieve more than my body weight's worth of ground tackle.

I admit being biased here toward the manual windlass I have over the electric one that would be a lot of money and installation time. At this point I probably won't upgrade - but I won't rule it out either if the manual windlass just doesn't work.

[Mike OReilly]

I just noticed Stonefloat's comments. Naturally everyone is different, and we also good at deluding ourselves... That said, I don't believe I have ever skimped on the amount of rode I let out. And we do re-anchor as many times as need be to get it right. If we are at all in doubt about our set, we haul in and try again (and again, and again...)

For me, anchoring is one of those things that I don't compromise on; not of the equipment, on the gear, nor on your technique. I sleep well at night knowing I have good gear, more than enough rode, and a good set -- always.

To turn this ease-of-retrival scenario around a bit, perhaps those of us with manual windlasses are more motivated to do things right the first time. It is just as likely that manual windlass folks might take more care anchoring, and therefore do it better, compared to those who can more easily try and re-try.

I don't actually believe either scenario is true. I think good cruisers know how to anchor properly using the best gear they can afford. Bad anchorers are bad anchorers, regardless of the windlass they have.

And BTW, you do not have to be a muscle man to operate a manual windlass if it is properly sized to your gear. It takes more effort than turning a switch, but certainly no more than operating a properly sized cockpit winch. My wife and I alternated between helm and deck duty every day. She has no more trouble hauling in our 3/8" all-chain rode and 55# anchor than I do. And heck, I'm not really that strong myself .

[cburger]

Originally Posted by 4arch

We plan to hop off for some extended cruising in a few months and will spend most of our time on the hook, moving every other day or so. Our boat came with a manual windlass that we’ll be using to raise a 55 lb. anchor on 3/8” all chain rode. I see that almost all discussion of windlasses focuses on electric models and that only one or two manual windlasses are still even made.

The idea of using the manual windlass appeals in many ways - the $2-3k cost of an electric windlass is saved, we get to build our upper body strength, it’s one less electrical item to break down/have to maintain/have to supply power for, and it will still work in the event of a complete electrical system failure. We’re both thirty-something so we’re not overly concerned about the manual labor of raising and lowering the anchor day to day.

If there’s anything we are worried about with the manual it’s being in a situation where the anchor is set hard, the wind’s piping up, and we have to get out in a hurry. Still, on our old boat we had no windlass and were able to motor forward on the rode in those situations.

So are we crazy to even think about sticking with the manual windlass? Are you out there on the hook using your manual every day and wouldn't have it any other way?

Use a nicely restored 1976 Simpson Lawrence 555 Sea Tiger, unit was given to me for no cost. I decided on this type for many of the same reasons you discuss, simple, strong and reliable just like the boat she is affixed to. If you watch ebay nice manuals come listed often, good luck.

[Tia Bu]

Well, this might cause a s*$# storm, but...

Another way to skin this cat is to go with about 20' of chain and the rest of the rode rope. You can forgo the windlass altogether. If the anchor gets stuck, pull the line up vertical, cleat it, and use the boat engine to break it out.

The argument for using all chain is that it introduces more catenary into the anchor line. But if it's blowing hard enough to have the chain taught (the times you're worried about the anchor dragging), there's not really any catenary there. Why carry all the extra weight and have to use a windlass in the first place?

Donning my helmet...

[rumiko dan]

We have a manual, and during our year of cruising we had to re-anchor many times, whether due to poor holding on first or second or third try, or due to looking around and deciding we were too close to someone or something, etc. We pulled it up in hard weather, once in a small bay with wind and waves coming in directly ahead. Usually hand pulled, but used the windlass a lot. Never had a problem, never wished for an electric. We would have had to add a generator, or a lot more batteries, or both. Manual works for us.

Dan

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Tia Bu

Another way to skin this cat is to go with about 20' of chain and the rest of the rode rope. You can forgo the windlass altogether. If the anchor gets stuck, pull the line up vertical, cleat it, and use the boat engine to break it out.

The argument for using all chain is that it introduces more catenary into the anchor line. But if it's blowing hard enough to have the chain taught (the times you're worried about the anchor dragging), there's not really any catenary there. Why carry all the extra weight and have to use a windlass in the first place?

Donning my helmet...

Oh, lets not go there Tia Bu . I will say that in my opinion 20' will almost never be enough chain; not unless you're talking a dingy sailor in shallow sandy bays. My previous boat carried 60' of chain with 3/4" nylon rode and a 35# anchor, and had no windlass. We always anchored in 30 feet or less, and mostly over sand, clay or mud. Rope to chain is OK in that scenario, but if you ever deal with rocks, coral, other people's rode or props, or even deadheads (as we do), then all-chain is your friend.

A windlass is not supposed to be used to break the anchor out. I'll admit that sometimes I do, but if it's deeply set, or stuck in anyway, I always cleat the rode and let the boat break the anchor. A windlass is mainly for lifting rode and anchor from the vertical.

[Horror Hotel]

I'm more likely to run over your out stretched rope rode with my dinghy. In a anchorage of chain the rope rode is easier to hit.

[sailorchic34]

Being a frugal/cheap sailor and with a really low budget, any windless is not in my budget. I have however gone to all chain on the bow. In calm conditions I use my back/legs to pull the chain up, till the chain is vertical. Then use a line lead aft to a sheet winch with a hook to the chain, head aft, and either winch up the anchor or put the boat in gear (if I'm not sailing off anchor) and let the boat break it out. Then head back to the bow to pull the rest of the chain and anchor up by hand. So much fun when there is black mud on the chain too....

In a blow, I use two lines, with the second run to the mast, and bring the chain up with the halyard and sheet winch, till its vertical. Then repeat with the sheet winch as above. Takes quite a bit O time when the wind is 30-35 knots. I much prefer the under 10 knot contitions

Windlass, we don't need no stinking windlass. On my boat I've two problems with a windlass. First there is a massive hardwood sampson post about where the windlass would go including substantial structure below deck too. Second, my chain locker is shallow so the chain fall distance is not set up for a windlass.

So for me its a wench winching. .

[xeon_tsd]

and to make it tougher on you... Defender is having a pretty big sale this weekend... the electric windlass that I *think* I want is at a pretty good price....

Maxwell HRC10-10 Horizontal Windlass with Capstan $1,844.96

[noelex 77]

The boat size makes a big difference. While electric windlass is a luxury that can always be done without, but on a 40 foot it would be high on the list of priorities.

With a manual winch there is a temptation to keep the anchor as small as possible and also to not re anchor when it would be prudent to do so. That does not mean you have to give into these temptations, but these compromises are commonly seen.

A final consideration is that the speed of recovery of the anchor is much slower with a manual winch. This can occasionally create or exacerbate problems.

The electric consumption is not high and if you motor forward when picking up the anchor the alternator will supply all the power (taking the duty cycle into consideration)

[4arch]

Originally Posted by xeon_tsd

and to make it tougher on you... Defender is having a pretty big sale this weekend... the electric windlass that I *think* I want is at a pretty good price....

Maxwell HRC10-10 Horizontal Windlass with Capstan $1,844.96

That's not a bad price and it does include a circuit breaker and up/down switch, but the cabling and miscellaneous electrical parts would be another $500+ to start, not to mention if you want to add a chain counter and/or wireless remote it could be another $500-1000. So we're still talking a total of $2500 to $3000 all told.

[Pinayreefer]

Everyone has good arguments for what they use, just as I do!
I ran a trimaran for 12 years, with no windlass, and after earlier boats with undersized anchors constantly dragged, I overindulged and had a 45# anchor on that 31' boat. When I bought Serenity, an Allied Princess that had a manual windlass, I thought I was in heaven. I still oversize my anchor, but that double action beauty is so much easier than hand over hand! Oh, and I use all chain also.

[atoll]

you might want to consider "where "your cruising grounds are going to be,we cruised extensively in the med and caribean before heading to the pacific on our first circumnav.

this was on a 35ft boat with all chain(10mm),and a 45lb cqr,and a manual loftrans windlass,in the med and caribean the windlass coped well,as generally the anchorages are 15-30 ft deep.

once in the pacific and indian ocean you will have to contend with much deeper atoll anchorages,40-80 ft or deeper,45lb plus chain hanging straight down in 60 ft of water is at about the limit of a manual windlass for easy retrieval.

[valhalla360]

Some thoughts: Boat Size, Anchor Size, Draft and cruising grounds make a big difference in the choice. We have no windlass at all and while it would be nice, I just can't justify it. The manual ones are almost as much as electric so why not get an electric. I believe a lot of them have provision for manual retrieval if the electrics fail:
- Given the size of the anchor you are proposing, a windlass starts to make sense.
- You drive up to the anchor pulling in the excess slack. I've yet to come across a manufacturer that recommends using the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor. Especially if you are fighting a significant current or wind.
- Letting out extra slack or retrieving it is minimal effort. Never impacted the amount we lay out.
- As we are shallow water anchorers, we do like the chain/rode setup. We have around 30' of chain. In typical 7-10' of water, the end of the chain is at or just below the surface. For a dingy to run over it, they would have to run into the rode that is out of the water.
- Another issue: Do you have more than 1 anchor ready to go? We have 2 on rollers and if one doesn't set, it's easy to release the other.

Deep water anchoring with a big anchor, we would probably move up to an electric windlass.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The boat size makes a big difference. While electric windlass is a luxury that can always be done without, but on a 40 foot it would be high on the list of priorities.

With a manual winch there is a temptation to keep the anchor as small as possible and also to not re anchor when it would be prudent to do so. That does not mean you have to give into these temptations, but these compromises are commonly seen.

A final consideration is that the speed of recovery of the anchor is much slower with a manual winch. This can occasionally create or exacerbate problems.

The electric consumption is not high and if you motor forward when picking up the anchor the alternator will supply all the power (taking the duty cycle into consideration)

I agree with you that a windlass becomes a near-necessity for larger boats. I cruised on our 34 boat for years with just a roller and my back. On our current 37-footer I could haul in my anchor/rode manually, but it would be a real challenge.

Once again though, this contention that a manual windlass somehow leads to anchoring laziness or undersized gear is not something I've seen. In fact, it's just as likely that having a manual windlass encourages better anchoring technique. I would say of all the poor anchoring I've observed, they commonly involve the use of an electric windlass that dumps all the gear over in one fast whoosh. Add to this the fact that stories of electric windlass failures are far more common than manuals (in my experience), and I think you have a compelling argument for going manual.

Electric windlasses are fine pieces of equipment. So are manual ones. Both have their advantages and disadvantage. Like so many things involved in cruising, there is no single right answer.