Why do we have electric anchor winches when they clearly do not work. Anchor winches

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by DeValency

Any windlass should have an overload breaker.

Agree that hydraulic motor can be more reliable, especially at the very wet conditions under the chain locker, but the entire system to support it require an electric pump, high pressure plumbing etc. etc. At most cases not that practical for boats under say 45'...

Electric pump? Nay! Engine-driven.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

I've been in conditions where I could not pull the anchor line at all from too much wind, and the boat was getting knocked down in gusts and filling the cockpit at anchor.


Putting the main on the 3rd reef and sheeting it tight I was able to pull anchor. Don't use the engine to motor over the anchor: use the main sail!

If you were being knocked down with bare poles at anchor, how could she stand even the third reef?

Jim

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

This.

As to why so few people install hydraulic windlass systems...go price them out. Then you will maybe better understand.

My system was assembled by a local hydraulics shop from stock parts used in the local fishing industry: $1600Cdn. It has worked flawlessly for 30 years.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If you were being knocked down with bare poles at anchor, how could she stand even the third reef?

Jim

Whoa, please don't let reality get in the way of a good sea story ;-)

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Jammer

.





I have looked extensively at OpenCPN, multiple versions over multiple years on multiple platforms, and find it to be a buggy, poorly supported project, with limited chart coverage, and with important features missing. There is also the inconvenient fact that few sunlight-viewable displays are available, fewer still with good all-weather touch screens. The result is an expensive science project that may or may not work once installed.

Expensive science project?
Obviously you are doing it wrong.

Opencpn has become our primary plotter
Dedicated commercial grade SEIWA with cmap is secondary
Navionics is 3rd.

Opencpn is miles in front.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

If you were being knocked down with bare poles at anchor, how could she stand even the third reef?

Jim

Not to mention he has a trimaran.
Wouldn't a knockdown on a tri have it on its roof?

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by seandepagnier

even low-spec lithium batteries can easily supply 1C discharge rate, many can do 5C or higher. Not sure why anyone uses lead acid since lithium batteries cost less these days. I think maybe the same reason people pay for chart plotters when the free software is a lot better.



For electric motors it makes sense to use roughly the same voltage as current for best efficiency. So for 12 volts, the motor should not use more than 20 amps, if it does, it makes more sense you use a 24 volt motor, and this will cut down on wiring losses a lot.

My electric boat ran nicely for nearly 8 years on eight 220AH 6V golf cart batteries in series, $85/each. Beat that with Lithium. Not putting Lithium down, mind you. They have advantages. Cost is not one of them, at least in the US.

I agree totally on the voltage. A 48V windlass would be the bee's knees. Unfortunately you would have to cobble it together yourself or have it custom built. I do not know of any inexpensive small boat 48V windlass being manufactured.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

...I have looked extensively at OpenCPN, multiple versions over multiple years on multiple platforms, and find it to be a buggy, poorly supported project, with limited chart coverage, and with important features missing. There is also the inconvenient fact that few sunlight-viewable displays are available, fewer still with good all-weather touch screens. The result is an expensive science project that may or may not work once installed.

On the other hand, we think very highly of OpenCPN. We've never wanted to have a daylight viewable screen since we do our navigating at the chart table so a good laptop running OpenCPN works for us. For piloting and racing tactics on deck we use a different product on a daylight viewable tablet, with data downloaded from OpenCPN, but virtually all of our serious navigating we use OpenCPN below deck.

Since we moved to OpenCPN in 2010 from a previous product we've been extremely happy with it. Bugs have not been apparent to us although we know there have been some (from reading the bug reports and forums). Problems we've experienced have been user errors and we've found the support excellent (prompt and helpful). Since the team does not create charts we cannot complain about the charts we use with OpenCPN. We often create our own charts. OpenCPN has more features and capability than any product that I have used, and way more than I have even been able to explore. Yes, I wish they would incorporate a few features I've requested, but apparently those features are not high on many lists. Maybe I'll get around to coding them myself.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Not to mention he has a trimaran.
Wouldn't a knockdown on a tri have it on its roof?

Well, I think when he did his serious engineless circumnavigation it was not the trimaran he has now. Or maybe it was.

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by Jammer

It depends where you are and what kind of lead acid batteries you get. In the USA flooded lead acid batteries are much less expensive for equivalent capacity. There is also the fact that boats set up for lead acid batteries require different or additional control systems. Though in some cases these are built into the battery case, they still add cost.





I have looked extensively at OpenCPN, multiple versions over multiple years on multiple platforms, and find it to be a buggy, poorly supported project, with limited chart coverage, and with important features missing. There is also the inconvenient fact that few sunlight-viewable displays are available, fewer still with good all-weather touch screens. The result is an expensive science project that may or may not work once installed.

Limited chart coverage? You do know that you can actually BUY charts, right? Nearly any format will work just fine. If you want to use only free charts, then yes, for world cruising there are indeed some limitations. Use free NOAA charts in US waters, CM93 charts for open ocean plotting and planning, along with the (free) pilot charts, but you still may have to actually break down and buy your harbor charts for your destination. Oh, the HUMANITY!

I don't find OCPN buggy at all, on PC hardware running Ubuntu, or an Android device, particularly rooted and with a good custom ROM installed. It even runs great on a Raspberry Pi 3 or 4 quite well, with Raspbian for an OS. Use any HDMI display you want. All-weather touch screens? You got me there. Not many chart plotter setups will survive a dunking, but an Android in a zip lock bag is pretty hard to drown. I just bought a Tab2 7" tablet for $100 that accepts a SIM card and has full dial-out and voice capability, and runs OCPN pretty well. Same with my collection of Note3 phones, also dirt cheap. And it is easy enough to build a watertight box for your Pi, a battery, and a display. I just use the zip lock trick and an Android, if for some strange reason I feel oddly compelled to have my electronics outside in rain and spray.

I could never understand why you need a chart plotter out in the cockpit, anyway. Do your route planning below. Steer as close to your course for your next waypoint as practical until ETA, then go below and see what the course to your next waypoint is, corrected for set and drift and leeway from the previous leg. You don't need infotainment on deck. Watch for ships, mind your helm, keep an eye on the weather and stand a tight watch. Eyes and fingertips glued to a touchscreen do not constitute keeping a proper watch. If you are going to not be paying attention to your sails, course, weather, and traffic, I would honestly rather see you taking a cat-nap in the cockpit with your trusty egg timer, and get some good out of your time spent out of touch with reality.

I understand this is above the level of logic and reason of many, and if you happen to be one, please do feel free to be outraged but if you are offended, understand please that this is not my intent. OCPN is quite a good package, properly set up, but it is just the navigation software. You got to provide your own charts, whether they be free or paid.

The buggiest chart navigation software I have ever tried was iNavX, which hopefully by now has died a peaceful death, or else improved to the point of usefulness, though unfortunately the iPhone platform lingers on.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

My system was assembled by a local hydraulics shop from stock parts used in the local fishing industry: $1600Cdn. It has worked flawlessly for 30 years.

Hmmm... 1600 bucks 30 years ago would likely equate to considerably more in the present. I've no idea, but I'd bet double or triple the amount.

Jim

[more]

i catch with my CAYMAN Windlass 1000w 35 meter depth, wind 5-8 kt

[GRIT]

What the heck is that you've caught? My first thought was Nessie's tail!

Is it edible?

Cheers.
Paul.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

My system was assembled by a local hydraulics shop from stock parts used in the local fishing industry: $1600Cdn. It has worked flawlessly for 30 years.

Very nice,

do you know roughly the specs of the hydraulic motor attached to the windlass and wether it runs the windlass through a reduction gearbox?

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by stormalong

Which is one of the key reasons why you should not have a battery forward. . . . . . and not being able to operate the windlass repeatedly when you may have to.

As it happens the battery up front charges off the solar array, consequently it is always fully charged and will easily deploy/recover the ground tackle 3 times with no signs of going soft and not hauling the boat forward on the winch enhances that ability. If I need to do 3 (or more) cycles while anchoring, I would start looking for a sailing school because I’d be questioning my ability.

The description of my layout wasn’t intended to imply that I was having issues with it, simply a justification for not using the winch to move the boat and a response to those saying that it was advisable to run the engine while operating the winch. On my boat that makes little difference.

Originally Posted by stormalong

The other reasons are: Having all that battery weight forward where there is a lot of boat motion, adding to the imbalance of weight on the ends on the boat, another battery to maintain

The battery only weighs 20kgs. Whilst I accept that it is probably heavier than 20 metres of battery cable, it’s hardly of significance in a boat that weighs 13 tons and has a few hundred kilos of ground tackle right by the battery. Another battery to maintain? I would have a separate battery for the winch no matter where it was located.

Originally Posted by stormalong

How many times have you or would you have to replace that battery in nearly 30 years?

I’ve had my boat for 13 years, changed the battery 9 years ago, still working fine. My up-front battery works very well for me, YMMV.