Windlass Concept

[Thorpydo]

Greetings,
I wonder what sort of over current protection windlasses have? Are they adequate? If they were, why would sailors and manufactures recommend against pulling the boat up to the anchor using the windlass- if the motor stalls and the over current protection is adequate and reliable, then no harm done, right?

I ask because I may have an alternative solution. What I have in mind- a mechanical means to create a constant torque windlass instead of a constant rpm. If there were no load on the rode, the windlass would spin at a constant rpm. When the load reaches a threshold the energy is stored and the motor is then shut off. If the load on the rode is reduced back below that threshold, the stored energy turns the drum and then the motor kicks back on. The threshold would be set below the point where the motor stalls.

Should I give this more energy or am I combating a non existent problem.

Thanks,
Adam

[skipmac]

The recommendation I think is based more on potential damage to the windlass motor and gears than over current concerns. An anchor windlass is designed to hoist the anchor, not to move a boat. In very calm conditions, sure pull the boat up to the anchor with the windlass but if the wind is howling and/or there's lots of wave action, the stress on the system, especially the hard jerks from the bow bouncing up and down will likely damage or break something.

Also, note that a windlass is not designed to hold the forces of the rode when you are anchored. You should always remove the rode (line or chain) and tie off to a cleat designed to handle the force.

[SkiprJohn]

Aloha Adam,
I think you might have an idea worth pursuing. As I understand it you would activate the windlass and it would detect whether or not it could handle the load quickly and operate or not operate depending on the torque required to retrieve rode.
kind regards,

[holmek]

Now, see, - I've never had a windlass, - always relied on my ancestral link to gorillas. But I would have thought that the windlass was there to do the HARD work and needn't be pampered when pressed into service. So why have a piece of equipment at a cost that denies your children a college education so it can be excused of duty in a time of desperate need. ?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by holmek

Now, see, - I've never had a windlass, - always relied on my ancestral link to gorillas. But I would have thought that the windlass was there to do the HARD work and needn't be pampered when pressed into service. So why have a piece of equipment at a cost that denies your children a college education so it can be excused of duty in a time of desperate need. ?

Well all you have to do is sail or motor up to the anchor as the windlass brings in the rode so don't consider that pampering too much. And I do consider hauling in 30 meters or more of chain with 20 kgs or more of anchor on the end doing the hard work. Even 30 meters of nylon can be hard work.

Almost got into trouble once when I was younger and thought I had muscles like a gorilla. Docked at a marina with exposed docks in the Bahamas when a strong norther blew in. Had to quickly bail out to a more protected spot to drop the anchor but when I got to the anchorage it was jammed full of boats that got there first. Saw the other side of the harbor had only one boat so went there to drop the hook and dragged. Let out more scope, messed around, never could get it to stick so hauled in, moved over a few hundred meters and tried again, same results. After the 5-6 time it finally dawned on me why everyone was anchored on the other side. By that time I don't think I could have hoisted that anchor over the bow one more time so found the biggest spot in the mob that I could and anchored with the crowd. Would have paid double for a windlass that day.

[Thorpydo]

Skipmac,

The recommendation I think is based more on potential damage to the windlass motor and gears than over current concerns.

It is the current passing through a stalled motor that heats the winding and destroys them. Over current protection would break the circuit before the motor destroys itself.

SkiprJohn,

I think you might have an idea worth pursuing. As I understand it you would activate the windlass and it would detect whether or not it could handle the load quickly and operate or not operate depending on the torque required to retrieve rode.

That is exactly what I am trying to describe. Thanks for doing it more eloquently.

holmek,

Now, see, - I've never had a windlass, - always relied on my ancestral link to gorillas. But I would have thought that the windlass was there to do the HARD work and needn't be pampered when pressed into service. So why have a piece of equipment at a cost that denies your children a college education so it can be excused of duty in a time of desperate need. ?

I don't have a windlass either- or children for that matter but I tend to agree with you, that if the windlass can handle it, it should. And if it can't, the outcome shouldn't be catastrophic. I think that the majority might not agree, because existing windlasses tend to poop out when overloaded.

[Jim Cate]

G'Day Thorpydo,

Frankly, I think that for most of us who have conventional electric windlasses there is no such issue. A minor application of common sense has managed to preserve our windlass through thousands of anchorings/weighings. One simply observes the action of the machine: if it is labouring, one then motors or sails upwind or current to reduce the load and the labouring ceases.

The only time we have ever tripped the breaker was when we had fouled an abandoned mooring block in Twofold Bay, New South Wales, and an evil looking roll cloud was sweeping in from the SW. That time we tripped it repeatedly whilst raising the block to where we could get a line under it and free the anchor. No apparent harm came from the abuse, and it continued to function normally thereafter. I for one would not want a windlass that decided for me if it would pull up the anchor.

FWIW, this was a Maxwell 1200 on our 46' yacht .

Cheers,

Jim

[ggray]

One other thing to think about as you are grinding the boat up to the anchor is the wear on the gypsey and chain.

And it would use more juice.

[Rick]

Thorpydo, you are implying a problem that does not exist. One desires a windlass with high retreival rate (as much rpm as possible, within reason) along with high torque. Horsepower developed by a windlass under load is a combination of torque and rpm.

Torque is directly proportional to the current through the armature. That current is equal to the applied voltage divided by the armature resistance at start up or stall, therefore, one wants as high an applied voltage as is reasonable to get going. Torque will decrease with rpm with a constant applied voltage.

Overcurrent protection is only needed at or near stall, generally speaking.
A good circuit breaker is perfect for that job because, unlike a fuse, it is easily reset should there be a "nuisance" trip.

So, cruisers having high output alternators have the engine running to keep the windlass running at the best retreival rate for the conditions of raising anchor with the voltage much higher than it would be without a charge source. With this in mind, a separate windlass battery is obviated and one does not want that extra weight near the bow, anyway.

[bobconnie]

I was taught to motor up toward the anchor, for a couple of reasons, one is to make it easier for the windless, and to get in the habit so when it's 2 am and ya gotta get that dragging anchor up and run to another place !! then your ready in advance!! and practice make perfect !!

[stillbuilding]

Over the years I have had several boats which had electric winches - several different manufacturers. Must be me I guess 'cos they ALL would trip the over-load breaker when the going got tough - usually when I needed it most. Another run back to the breaker (while dragging down onto something or other!) and try again! In a few boats I had access to the breaker via hatch on the foredeck - not so bad but still bloody silly really. I agree - for the price of a college education I want more. This time I am going hydraulic. If going electric I would look at changing the gear ratio of the winch to make slower but more powerful or get a windlass two sizes bigger than manufacturers recommendation.

[Cheechako]

I have used the windlass to pull the boat up over the anchor on at least 3 boats, with 3 different windlasses, two of which were used to start with. No issues. I only do it in minimal or no wind and slowly. Sometimes ijust kick the motor in gear for a second prior to going forward. I think the manufactureres recommend against because its just too hard to explain to some folks when to do it and when. Common sense reigns

[gjordan]

STILL BUILDING made a very good point. Anything to do with anchoring should be 2 sizes larger than manufacturers recommend. 3 sizes larger than salesmen who have never spent a night at anchor recommend. Good ground tackle is the best insurance you have on a boat. My 2 cents worth.____Grant.

[SkiprJohn]

I definitely know how you are supposed to baby a windlass.

I think if my windlass was very strongly anchored to the deck, it was a really tough unit, and I had plenty of 12 volt power to it I'd like to be able to do much more than just retrieve my ground tackle. I'd like to use it to raise and lower mooring blocks, lift engines, pull boats off the rocks/reefs and retrieve very heavy things from the bottom.

I truly think that what the OP had in mind would be something to pursue.

kind regards,

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

for the price of a college education I want more.

College must be a whole lot cheaper where you went to school or you have the world's most expensive windlass. I went to a fairly cheap state university in the US and it cost me enough to buy a small boat. What I paid to send my daughter to college was more than I paid for my current 42'. That is not counting med school which is in a whole new ball park.