Aground at Elbow Cay

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by funjohnson

I'd guess that the weather you're seeing on the grib would also have a North component in the pass between Bahamas and Florida.... not where I would want to be with the wind against the Gulf Stream.

Matt

Just to be clear the weather posted is the actual winds measured by the ASCAT satellite, not model predictions.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by weavis

My beer taste of preference is English Bitter.
Also Irish Guinness.

Here in Seville Spain the local beer is Cruzcampo. A lager. Most places is all you can get. It took me a year to become accustomed to it... its OK for my palate now...

You can get used to anything if you have to...

In Spain my taste runs to Mahou and Estrella.. in Portugal its Crystal, Super Bock and then Sagres..

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

In Spain my taste runs to Mahou and Estrella.. in Portugal its Crystal, Super Bock and then Sagres..

Try and get Mahou in local bars in sEvilla... ask for it and you would think I had slighted the Virgin Mary statue in the corner...

City centre bars have it...not the local bars..

[Vasco]

The best Guinness is brewed in the Bahamas.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Just to be clear the weather posted is the actual winds measured by the ASCAT satellite, not model predictions.

That explains the sweep line. Thanks.

Matt

[chris mac]

Damn boatie, entertaining drift.
If I get the chance, I'll gladly buy you a beer or 3 just for the chance to sit and chat. You've got some great stories under your keel

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Whoa... back up dude..
If light hearted banter leaves you with an impression of a 'Pub Crawl' I reckon you lack a life.. or a pub crawl means a lot less in your world.. we worked all day and went to the 'Downtowner' each evening for a meal and I grabbed a couple or three beers at most.. my partner/crew does not drink and the grief is not worth the fourth beer.
As to the types.. yes I tried their IPA.. but then went to the only other beer mentioned Yuengling. I really don't care how much you drink or don't drink, none of my business but with only 4 days to inspect and prepare a boat that's new to you, this is what you had to say about your "preparations" back then. "Finally found the boat after a minor panic.. currently at the 'Downtowner Saloon' listening to some cool live music and siping IPA... truth be told after today I'm guzzling it..." and "Sat night and got totally smashed on IPA.. my crew was not impressed with my clumsy coffee making and crashing about.. Sunday was a groggy hike up here and a stagger back with ..." Now can you understand how I'd get the "wrong" impression about your beer drinking habits versus your boat preparation habits during that brief 4 day period that you had available to prepare yourself and the boat?

As for the water.. we drained the tanks before filling however as the owners had been living on board the previous 3mths had no reason to think there would be a problem.. so loaded bottled for Lena while I made do with what we put in the tanks. The owners had been living at a dock, not offshore where you depend on whatever water you take with you to keep you alive. You've been on enough boats to know that you can't count on tank water to remain potable for extended periods of time and it would have been a simple thing and a pretty inexpensive thing, even if you planned to drink the tank water on a boat that you had no idea how clean the water tanks were, to purchase a backup supply to have on board just in case.

As to your crap about the cost to me.. I never made mention about cost to me.. I made mention of the charge for a 40 mile tow and the fact I was getting pestered by the Belgian to give him the work.. all it cost me was an enforced stay of over 20days.You are the one saying you're still "prickly" about having to stay over so long and get inspected before proceeding. Frankly, in retrospect it seems to me it was a good thing you were forced to fix the boat properly before proceeding. I'm really not worried about the dollar cost to you, but you do seem awfully unconcerned about the lost time and dollar cost to the container ships owner that having to provide water to you cost him. His skipper did it voluntarily but the bottom line is that he'd have saved a lot of time and fuel if not for you. Are you REALLY going to put the blame on him for wasting that time and fuel because you told him to just drop it in the ocean and you'd pick it up and he felt obligated to do it the right way to ensure you were OK? Do you accept that ANYTHING is your fault?

As for my accepting the tow.. the owner had already been put in a big enough panic by the barrage of e-mails saying he was about to lose his boat if a rescue was not mounted straight away and induced to pay out an initial deposit of 1500 euro's..
My options were either accept the tow or keep going on my own.. either way the owner would not get his money back.. little did I know he'd be banged for another 2 grand.. else I may just have refused.
Also.. why did this 'Angel of Mercy' not gives my position or Spot page link to the CG.. or anyone else on CF come to that.. like you maybe.. if your brain is as in gear as you make out, once the wooden spoon had started stirring up the crap.. seem to remember you being one of the posters.
That's what rescue services are for.. but no.. dash off and grab the nearest cowboy you know. What a joke. Actually, I was NOT one of the posters who was watching your SPOT or stirring anything up and I wasn't paying any attention to this thread until quite late. I believe that my first post in that thread is number 808 so why don't you check that out and see if it sounds like I was being critical of you or stirring anything up. I thought that the owner was justifiably curious about why you were late and he certainly has the right to send someone out to see what was going on aboard his boat that was slowing you down. But ultimately, you as the skipper could have turned down the tow and probably should have since it's something you still seem PO'd about a year later. I'm not sure why you are so upset about this. There's no shame in systems breaking down, especially when you're not the one who's been maintaining the boat and there's no shame in getting towed in so you get there quicker and necessary repairs can commence sooner. If I was the owner I'd have paid to have you towed in and if I was the skipper I would have happily accepted that tow. Yeah, it meant you had to put up with a bit of bureaucratic excess but that's how governments do things and that probably shouldn't be a big surprise to you by now. At least it meant that the boat got fixed properly before the owner expected you to proceed.


As to mistake.. none that I am aware.. unexpected/unexplainable things happened, the electrician could not find what caused the problem that made the batteries dump.. the generator was solved when I went online and downloaded the 'codes' and the engines were declared sound by the Navy inspector.. the electrician cost 100 euro and the Navy inspection was 35 euro. that was the extent of 'repair costs'

Basically you have not a clue what was or was not done before I set out.. You just feel a need.. having found a seeming good excuse in the early posts to vent some bile.. vent away pal.. it may ease the ulcers.. I really don't think it's me who is feeling "prickly" about discussing this or is getting ulcers over it. I learned everything I know about your preparations from your own posts. You mentioned that you were going to get to the boat one day and then go shopping for food and the SPOT but of course you also told us about stumbling around with a hangover, etc. Obviously, in retrospect, the boat had some electrical and mechanical and water tank issues and I don't claim that I'd have been able to diagnose them all beforehand just by coming aboard the boat at a dock, or that you necessarily should have, but it seems to me that you didn't even really try and you didn't do any sort of shakedown cruise that might have given you indications that would have led you to dig a little deeper and possibly find at least a few of them before they caused problems for you.

Maybe you should contact the owner and ask him what was really happening behind the scenes of the so called rescue.. and then what he thought of my services and the condition of the boat when he arrived in Almerimar.

No..??? or are you happier just being a bitch about someone else's capabilities.

Really, calling me a "bitch" seems childish, even for you (and
btw it's also against the rules for this forum). Maybe it's time you started being a bit less thin skinned when someone attempts discuss things that happened on your watch and points out some problems that could have been avoided if you had taken a slightly different approach to the way your prepared for this delivery. Even people with a lot of experience and great capabilities can learn and improve from an honest discussion of things they could have done differently that would have made things turn out better. That's true for all of us. You seem to take that personally and are only willing to accept the opinions of people who say you do no wrong. That's too bad, especially for a man of your age and experience.

[boatman61]

I really don't care how much you drink or don't drink, none of my business but with only 4 days to inspect and prepare a boat that's new to you, this is what you had to say about your "preparations" back then. "Finally found the boat after a minor panic.. currently at the 'Downtowner Saloon' listening to some cool live music and siping IPA... truth be told after today I'm guzzling it..." and "Sat night and got totally smashed on IPA.. my crew was not impressed with my clumsy coffee making and crashing about.. Sunday was a groggy hike up here and a stagger back with ..." Now can you understand how I'd get the "wrong" impression about your beer drinking habits versus your boat preparation habits during that brief 4 day period that you had available to prepare yourself and the boat?

As to the finding the boat.. We had just arrived after a flight from Portugal followed by well over an hour clearing in.. directions for the location were unclear so it was around 2300hrs by the time our gear was on board.. it had been a long day off travel when you take into account the time difference.. It does not take a lot to give me a hangover to be honest.. and 10 carrier bags of shopping and a backpack tends to make one stagger.. hungover or not.

The owners had been living at a dock, not offshore where you depend on whatever water you take with you to keep you alive. You've been on enough boats to know that you can't count on tank water to remain potable for extended periods of time and it would have been a simple thing and a pretty inexpensive thing, even if you planned to drink the tank water on a boat that you had no idea how clean the water tanks were, to purchase a backup supply to have on board just in case.

Actually the owners had been cruising the Caribe for over 3mths before I arrived to collect the boat.. they'd just brought it over from the Bahama's a fortnight earlier.. another assumption by you

You are the one saying you're still "prickly" about having to stay over so long and get inspected before proceeding. Frankly, in retrospect it seems to me it was a good thing you were forced to fix the boat properly before proceeding. I'm really not worried about the dollar cost to you, but you do seem awfully unconcerned about the lost time and dollar cost to the container ships owner that having to provide water to you cost him. His skipper did it voluntarily but the bottom line is that he'd have saved a lot of time and fuel if not for you. Are you REALLY going to put the blame on him for wasting that time and fuel because you told him to just drop it in the ocean and you'd pick it up and he felt obligated to do it the right way to ensure you were OK? Do you accept that ANYTHING is your fault?

Forced to put things right..??? Euro 135 for two inspections that could find nothing wrong.. just plugging in put things right..
As for saying I'm blaming the container ship in any way is just grasping at straws.. I made the call and explained to you what had happened resulting from that call. Man the hate is boiling over..

Actually, I was NOT one of the posters who was watching your SPOT or stirring anything up and I wasn't paying any attention to this thread until quite late. I believe that my first post in that thread is number 808 so why don't you check that out and see if it sounds like I was being critical of you or stirring anything up. I thought that the owner was justifiably curious about why you were late and he certainly has the right to send someone out to see what was going on aboard his boat that was slowing you down. But ultimately, you as the skipper could have turned down the tow and probably should have since it's something you still seem PO'd about a year later. I'm not sure why you are so upset about this. There's no shame in systems breaking down, especially when you're not the one who's been maintaining the boat and there's no shame in getting towed in so you get there quicker and necessary repairs can commence sooner. If I was the owner I'd have paid to have you towed in and if I was the skipper I would have happily accepted that tow. Yeah, it meant you had to put up with a bit of bureaucratic excess but that's how governments do things and that probably shouldn't be a big surprise to you by now. At least it meant that the boat got fixed properly before the owner expected you to proceed.

Actually the owner had not a bludi clue as he was following neither the thread nor the Spot track across the Atlantic.. the first he knew was when he got contacted and told he was gonna lose his boat.. and from that first contact the pressure was piled on to create something out of nothing.
So yes.. It still rankles that the mob mentality took hold and the owner got scammed for no valid reason.. if this would not anger you then there is definitely something wrong with your moral compass.

I really don't think it's me who is feeling "prickly" about discussing this or is getting ulcers over it. I learned everything I know about your preparations from your own posts. You mentioned that you were going to get to the boat one day and then go shopping for food and the SPOT but of course you also told us about stumbling around with a hangover, etc. Obviously, in retrospect, the boat had some electrical and mechanical and water tank issues and I don't claim that I'd have been able to diagnose them all beforehand just by coming aboard the boat at a dock, or that you necessarily should have, but it seems to me that you didn't even really try and you didn't do any sort of shakedown cruise that might have given you indications that would have led you to dig a little deeper and possibly find at least a few of them before they caused problems for you.

Ahh.. the famous 'Shakedown Cruise'.. Guaranteed to give one a trouble free 3500nm trip..
Stick to the settee..

[QUOTE=jtsailjt;2555669]Really, calling me a "bitch" seems childish, even for you (and
btw it's also against the rules for this forum). Maybe it's time you started being a bit less thin skinned when someone attempts discuss things that happened on your watch and points out some problems that could have been avoided if you had taken a slightly different approach to the way your prepared for this delivery. Even people with a lot of experience and great capabilities can learn and improve from an honest discussion of things they could have done differently that would have made things turn out better. That's true for all of us. You seem to take that personally and are only willing to accept the opinions of people who say you do no wrong. That's too bad, especially for a man of your age and experience. [/QUOTE

It did not look much like a discussion you were starting.. more like an attack on my honesty and my abilities..
So I've responded to your face in the open..
And if you knew me at all you would know I put my mistakes out there for all to see/read when I make them.. and ones I have made in the past long before I joined CF.. I am not afraid to be judged nor averse to calling myself a pratt if I feel I have been one.
On this voyage the only mistake I made was to post my Spot link for all to see.. with the best of intentions that ended up kicking me in the face.
I'm just sad no one listened to the few experienced and wiser voices on here who have actually done some serious sailing resulting in a better insight of the situation.. just another delivery..
But once the match was struck there was no stopping the conflagration.

[Jammer]

Well, back to the discussion on the beaching at Elbow Cay.

There is much that I do not know but I did not realize until reading this thread that there are conditions where a well-found, modern sailboat cannot make progress to windward. I would find it insightful if someone could say a few words on how much this is due to the design of this particular boat and how much of it is weather.

Seems to me that the parting of the rode would indicate a worn or undersized rode.

It occurs to me that the owner and captain of a much older boat with a litany of problems including the engine, the hull to deck joint, and the loss of both anchors and rodes might see beaching her safely as a positive outcome since the financial loss, if any, would be small, after things like solar panels and electronics are salvaged.

[boatman61]

When there's a long period of wind from a specific direction.. in this case the N the sea's will build up to a few metre's and with sufficient wind will start breaking.. add into this the movement of the front which will have the wind shifting from NW to N to NE over an extended period (I have experienced this and the process can last 8days or more of F7 and over) a confused sea develops resulting in cross sea's which will knock you of your heading.. or even cause a gybe if hove to.. not a nice experience.
I have experienced sea's of 10metres in a SE gale in the Biscay against the prevailing currents and swell on a 31ft boat long fin and skeg Westerly.. where the waves were near vertical and any sail up threatened to knock you over as you crested the peak.. and 10metres is a long way to fall.. on that occasion I chose to lay ahull.. no sail and tiller lashed.. others may choose to do differently.
If one has the searoom and the waves are rolling one can run before with a hankie up front or just bare poles.. or heave to.. but no matter the sailboat in certain conditions forward progress will be impossible.. for the W32 given their location I would say a prolonged F7 would be enough to stop them going into the wind in the open ocean.. after the first 24hrs the seas would be 4-5metres at least and rising.. then as it passed to the N the cross sea's would kick in.
But that's just my opinion from observation.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by boatman61

In Spain my taste runs to Mahou and Estrella.. in Portugal its Crystal, Super Bock and then Sagres..

This might me more up the alley for the couch navigator sailors to comment on.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

This might me more up the alley for the couch navigator sailors to comment on.

You mean like the rum thread?

Be nice.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by weavis

You mean like the rum thread?

Be nice.

The rum thread is very very special. I bet there isn’t any other thread as old and long as it that hasn’t drifted off topic.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by boatman61

In Spain my taste runs to Mahou and Estrella.. in Portugal its Crystal, Super Bock and then Sagres..

Here on the River in Sevilla, I get to work with my buddy on a lovely River boat from time to time. I finally convinced him to get other beers for the tourists.

Now cruising the River is nice.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

This might me more up the alley for the couch navigator sailors to comment on.

Shoot.. who told you I've fitted a 500cc engine on my couch..