Android or Apple tablet?

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

...
but reading through all that and those people who love fiddling with systems for the sake of it, I'm interested in the apps that people are running.

We've been happy with the apps we use because we do NOT have to fiddle with 'em. I'm an "old Unix guy" -- Dockhead's workds -- and also mostly prefer a command line interface for "real" work... but I can deal with something like Windows because I can see into it. Not so much with either Android or iOS (although I haven't really paid all that much attention to computer innards for the last 20 years or so).

Bottom line for me, these days, is that the app works immediately and all the time, with no fiddling on my part, or I chuck it. We've been using P2N and MX M for the last 3-4 years, no glitches with either, ever. Had to ask P2N product support for help when we chucked a tablet and needed to reload P2N on a new one -- that was about managing the multiple licenses -- and it was an easy fix. Otherwise... all good.

-Chris

[OrinocoFlo]

Originally Posted by Voltron66

I would not take an Apple product any where near water. It will fail and Apple will not honour their warranty if there is the slightest hint that water was involved.
They have water sensors that can be triggered by humidity but Apple will claim that it was actual water contact and void your warranty. Apple products are not worth the excessive price .As their version of Google Home and Amazon Alexa, the clumsily named HomePod clearly shows, Apple are no longer an innovator. They are simply trying to play catch up.

We've been using apple products around the water for over eight years without a problem. Here's a video of me using my iPad Air which is housed inside a LifeProof Nuud case with a life jacket.

We have three iPads onboard with cellular ability which means they have built in GPS. We also use two MacBook Pro laptops onboard and a Laptop PC. The windows based 2017 model HP top-of-the-line laptop is what's given us many problems with it's GPS usb puck connecting to Nobeltec.

Pam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roLIEIjsd18

[sand6000]

I have Samsung Phone and Tablet and both have Navionics. I am very happy and they are a lot cheaper than the Apple products.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

We've been using P2N and MX M for the last 3-4 years, no glitches with either, ever. Had to ask P2N product support for help when we chucked a tablet and needed to reload P2N on a new one -- that was about managing the multiple licenses -- and it was an easy fix. Otherwise... all good.

Didn't at the time remember I could have clarified that glitch thing. One of our then tablets crapped out... so there was just no way to uninstall P2N on that tablet before installing on the replacement. The license supports 3 devices, but we couldn't tell the system we now only had 2 working devices loaded. The Jeppeson support guys did whatever it took so that we could install P2N on our new "third" device.

-Chris

[Tessellate]

I'm an Android guy, and lately I've been spending more time than I'd like learning the lay of the land in the Android tablet market.

There are advantages to staying on one ecosystem - if your phones are Android or Apple, it makes sense to stay the same on your tablet(s). One app store, don't need to repurchase apps, learn multiple UIs, more accessories are interchangeable (charging cords, etc), etc.

The biggest Android advantage is price - iPad's are 2-3x the price. I bought a good Android tablet for $210 (USD) last week with GPS. An iPad with GPS costs well over $600. And if your tablet is going to be your primary nav, you need backup devices. You can get 3x redundancy in Android for the price of one Apple device.

An advantage to Apple, I hear, is high build quality and support. In theory if you have a hardware defect under warranty you can bring it in to an Apple store and get it swapped quickly.

With Android tablets you have to go through a 1 month long RMA process. For a navigational tablet while cruising this is a big pain. Hardware failures are becoming more common, because tablets are being built to cheap price points with short expected lifecycles (less than 2 years) - consumer electronics are becoming "disposable" unfortunately.

Android tablets are hard to choose from now because there are so many, yet Google stopped making tablets (the Nexus line and the Pixel C). I always preferred the Nexus line because it was stock Android (no bloatware) and better supported.

I have an Asus Zenpad 3S 10 which started crashing frequently after 1 month. Asus support is terrible and their tablets have a lot of bloatware (useless, duplicative apps and silly UI - you can disable this all but it makes tablet setup take a lot of time). The older model Asus Zenpad 10 though is only about $210 USD, runs about as fast as the 3S, and hasn't broken yet (only 1 week in, we'll see).

[Amaman]

Hi guys, I am going to buy an Ipad for my boat. Is there an advantage to ipad pro vs the new Ipad?

[GTom]

Originally Posted by Amaman

Hi guys, I am going to buy an Ipad for my boat. Is there an advantage to ipad pro vs the new Ipad?

Navigation apps have been around and used on seriously old iPads, I don't think that you'd run into any practical bottleneck with a little bit lesser model.

[AJ_n_Audrey]

So just to counter a couple of clearly mistaken comments (by way of reinforcing OrinocoFlo's comment), I have an iPad Mini with built-in GPS. It cost me $50 because there was a special sale, but still... I run three different nav softwares on the iPad. I put the iPad in a LifeProof waterproof case, and last year I crossed the Gulf Stream in one of the hardest rainstorms I've ever experienced. The iPad still works great a year later.

I have nothing against Android, but the ease of use with Apple products is real, and as long as you put them in a waterproof case, being around water is no problem.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey

So just to counter a couple of clearly mistaken comments (by way of reinforcing OrinocoFlo's comment), I have an iPad Mini with built-in GPS. It cost me $50 because there was a special sale, .

One example does not reality make.

[sgwright]

I have a question specific to Navionics on the iPad vs Android. I've been running Navionics on an Acer 10" tablet for about 6 months, and have been quite happy with it overall, and have recorded over 1000NM of tracks from our sailing trips along the BC coast. One feature I would love to have is the ability to review the track and show my SOG and course at a point on the track. It seems like a simple thing, but I cannot find any way to do this.
Then I was out sailing on another boat, and was told that the iOS version of Navionics can replay/review tracks with speed data shown in a graph format. I didn't actually see it in action, and I haven't been able to find any documentation showing this feature.

Before I contact Navionics to ask, I was hoping someone could confirm or deny that this feature exists on the iOS version?

Thanks

[NorthernMac]

It’s all about which one runs what, which is why most all pilots run iOS devices.

See what software you need to run, find the devices that run it, compare specs and prices

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Amaman

Hi guys, I am going to buy an Ipad for my boat. Is there an advantage to ipad pro vs the new Ipad?

The latest “base” iPad is a big upgrade on what went before at a good price. It is likely to be easily enough for boat use. The iPad Pro has a bigger (or much bigger, depending on model) screen of higher quality, more storage, more processor power, better pencil (should you want that). But other than screen size you might not care about these things too much for navigation.

Remember that if you’re transmitting NMEA data overage Wi-Fi you can get gps position from that, so you absolutely don’t need a cellular iPad just for position data. In case of total nmea failure you can tether to your iPhone for gps position (or use the phone as emergency navigation)

[slug]

Originally Posted by TomNH

I think there are a few key factors that drive your use of tablets:

- do you/will you have a wifi network on board which provides access to the boat's data sources (GPS, AIS, wind, depth, radar etc)? (the alternative being that you want the tablet to also be a position fixer).
- do you anticipate using the tablet on deck?

For me the answer to both is yes, and I thus use WiFi only iPads in Lifeproof Nuud cases: this gives me a physically robust/waterproof device with the best daylight viewing possible for the tablet (newer iPads have much brighter displays), as the Nuud cases don't have a film her the screen. And I depend on the boat's data systems to provide position information: I've various back up GPS devices on board to address the resilience issue

I don't like plotters at the wheel. For me, and I sail short handed, I'd rather not try and do two things at once, and I've got a perfectly good autopilot for those moments when it's safe to be playing with a plotter, and then I can sit comfortably in the cockpit with an iPad. Not being behind the wheel reminds me I need to keep an eye open. What I don't have, and do want, is a radar system that will relay it's data to an app - at the moment that display is down below.

The other side to the question is what do you want to do with the tablet: the apps I use are:
- iSailor: for its clear charting and support of NMEA over WiFi. Used cruising and for pilotage.
- Tides planner - a good, accurate tide (and tidal stream) app, that uses UKHO data.
- MS Remote Desktop. Allows me to take control of my nav station PC (either real windows one, or running on VMWare on a Mac) to access Expedition, which is where real passage planning, routing, etc takes place .
- NMEARemote - esp when racing - allows me to get up Expedition calculated variables that I might not (as Navigator) want to put on deck or mast displays - such as time/distance to layline, or next leg awa/aws.

Expedition is windows only, so I run windows to support it. Expedition is expensive, but, when connected using B&Gs proprietary interface into my instruments it offers features nothing else does, and the support from the developer is second to none. I know this is a cruising forum, but although it is shamelessly race orientated it offers all the routing features you need to cruise too.

I'm an old technologist too - but favour the apple ecosystem because I like the consequences of their hard rules about user experience - it results in a consistency of user interface from app to app (as an aside there's a case to be made for old unix folk, like me, using OS X on macs rather than windows - the underlying platform is a bull blooded unix implementation, BSD.)

Yah..ISailor is good stuff..high quality charts , updates, simple to use

For some years I’ve been using the iPad app called Weather Track for gribs and basic routing
Have a look if you need a weather app

[GrowleyMonster]

Ipads can be very restrictive on what the user can and cannot do with the device. They usually lag far behind Android in that regard. For instance, there was a time with the ability to plug a thumb drive or other USB drive into an Android device was a really big deal, and Apple did not want to allow that. In the face of consumer demand and Android's OTG ability right out of the box, they had to allow it, too. Apple hates when a user hacks his own device in any way. They want you to be a nice little i-thing user and behave. They want to decide what you will do with your phone or tablet. They know what is best. That model works for a certain demographic. It does work brilliantly if you are content with the functionality that is spoon fed to you. As Apple says, "It works as designed". If you want to extend the power of the device, you have to "jailbreak" it, and Apple spends millions of dollars every year trying to defeat the efforts of the dev teams writing the new jailbreak apps and patches for each new version of the OS.



Android, OTOH, is very usable, very flexible, very hackable. By that, I mean you can make it do stuff that the designer did not envision or that the vendor is not pushing. Often that means "rooting" the phone, which gives you full access to the entire file system including system files. This is power. Power used unwisely usually leads to problems and this is true with an Android device as anywhere or with any thing. But even the stock OS and hardware are capable of doing things and doing them in ways that Apple would prohibit. An Android device can be flashed with alternative open source versions of the OS or versions written from scratch. An Android, for better or worse, can use third party software even without rooting. It is simply the more powerful system. But you are "allowed" to screw up just like you are allowed to unleash the device's full capabilities.



Those are the two cultural and philosophical differences between the two communities. Either universe is valid. Myself, I prefer the latter. I don't want a bunch of poindexters trying to tell me what I can or cannot do with my own phone that I paid for with my own money.


As far as nav apps go, I have to give OCPN over Android the big twin thumbs up. You can store your charts wherever and however you want. You have choice. You are not subjected to surprise "updates" that rain all over your parade. It is also very similar to running OCPN on an ordinary Linux laptop. I do not like all those paid subscriptions and time-out licensing schemes forced on me by the app or the OS. I do not like "hostage-ware". I used INavX on an iphone 4 for a short time and it was a nice app until I started having problems with charts "going away" LOL. And the app simply stopped working a couple of times too many and I got tired of needing support. OCPN can run in a stand alone system with no internet connection for as long as you need it. It gets better and more capable with more functions and abilities all the time. Navionics can be economical when you need charts for a particular area and they are encrypted and expensive... sometimes the Navionics package for a region is the cheapest way to go. However I do like the power of OCPN to display nearly any chart or even those you make yourself, and incorporate input from lots of different sources and devices right to your old laptop or ancient TabII 7" or Note 3 or even a $35 Raspberry Pi.



For my money, OCPN on Android or Linux or both is the best setup. For some, an i-thing running some other software is best, so they can't hurt themselves. Sort of like the blunt scissors you had to use in 2nd grade art class. And lots of happy iphone/ipad users have drank the koolaid and are comfortable in the IOS universe. It's all good. Choose what works best for you.

[boom23]

I have not read all the posts, but just in case it has not been mentioned, most, if not all, Android tablets have built-in GPS. Only the iPads with a SIM card capability have GPS.

I am on the Android camp. The iPads are way too restrictive for me. Just read Steve Jobs' autobiography and you will understand why.