Are radio direction finders completely obsolete?

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by capt jgw

But an old navigation RDF won't do that, it's on the wrong frequency band.

Depends. They all could receive the beacon band through 3.5 MHz. Some of them could also receive channel 16, some of them had a tunable VHF-hi feature (usually covering roughly 135-175 MHz which includes the marine VHF channels), and some of them had a couple of slots for crystals for VHF so you could set them up with one or two channels of your choice. There are some examples of each type in eBay now.


The VHF performance was usually pretty poor, though, and you've got to be quick to home in on a relatively brief transmission rather than a broadcast signal or beacon.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Sorry your the one persisting

And I’ll post as much as I like to counter the abject nonsense here

Open your recent copy of “ Admiralty Guide to radio signals “ look up RDF beacon info

When you actually know what your talking about then tell me it’s not obsolete

Oh by the way could you link new small boat RDF equip manufactures , yep thought so.

It’s obsolete, a few weird racers will not use it , actually , so what.

It’s not a question of changing my mind You are just wrong that’s all.

I think you might be too isolated and don't know how to deal with a differing opinion.

I hope you will be okay though.

We are here for you.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by thomm225

I think you might be too isolated and don't know how to deal with a differing opinion.

I hope you will be okay though.

We are here for you.

Sure all the boats stacked with RDF gear , all those non functioning beacons being turned backed on , the chandlers ordering all those RDF units and the inclusion of practical RDF navigation in RYA courses , mean I must be an isolated viewpoint

Oh well , excuse me the steam boiler needs stoking.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by thomm225

A few Beacons are still transmitting and used in the Golden Globe Race 2022 plus other transmitters.

https://mechtraveller.com/2022/09/go...ng-old-school/

From the link above.

GGR skipper Guy Waites told me that there were only two beacons covering the route of their pre-GGR race from Gijon in northern Spain across the Bay of Biscay to Les Sables d’Olonne. He managed to find a signal from one of them but not the other. However, GGR sailors don’t give up that easily. He tuned to BBC Radio 4 on 198 longwave, found the null spot in the signal and was able to use that as a second bearing because he knew the transmitter is in Droitwich!

I hope he remembered to use his half-convergency tables.

Which by the way are still handy for converting GC to rhumb line.

[JPA Cate]

I can think of one radio beacon that still works for marine navigation It marks the Goro side of the Canal de la Havannah in New Caledonia, and it broadcasts the Morse Code "G". It will keep you off the barrier reef to get to where you can see it. It is useful because the SE tradewinds tend to set you onto the reef, and it is a marine sanctuary, so that contact with it would become a legal nightmare. At springs, there are whirlpools there, too, so that staying on the "G" side of the channel is much safer. I have to apologize here, for mis-remembering. It is a RACON transponder, a radar, not a radio beacon. Jim just told me, now, about 2hrs later. Sorry.

Arguing about obsolescence of radio direction finding here on CF is way, way odd to this observer. Somehow the word has become pejorative, and folks are defending its use. Here are a couple of definitions care of Mr. Google:

no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
Similar:
out of date
outdated
outmoded
old-fashioned
no longer in use
disused
fallen into disuse
superannuated
outworn
antiquated
antediluvian
anachronistic
discarded
discontinued
old
dated
antique
archaic
ancient
fossilized
extinct
defunct
dead
bygone
out of fashion
out
behind the times
démodé
passé
vieux jeu
old hat
out of the ark
geriatric
prehistoric
past its sell-by date
antwacky
Opposite:
contemporary
current
modern
new
up to date
2.
BIOLOGY
(of a part or characteristic of an organism) less developed than formerly or in a related species; rudimentary; vestigial.

I guess #2 refers to vestigial organs like our appendixes. One can see that some of the synonyms are more emotionally charged than others.

Maybe some folks would do better to go sailing. To me, it is that the "tempest in a teapot" that developed here would not have happened at all, if the question had been framed -- not as obsolete -- but as "uncommon," because most of us know that many of the rdf radio beacons have been discontinued.

So, to the OP: not completely obsolete; and there are many more aids to navigation that one can use. The use of AM radio receivers to find transmitters on those frequencies has been an emergency backup for a very long time, indeed.

Ann

[JPA Cate]

Which by the way are still handy for converting GC to rhumb line.

Yup. Non-Euclidian geometry. "The shortest distance between two points is a great circle route."

Cheers, Ping,

Ann

[Bruce K]

Ahhh! This thread brings back memories of using a B&G Heron and Homer!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by thomm225

A few Beacons are still transmitting and used in the Golden Globe Race 2022 plus other transmitters.

https://mechtraveller.com/2022/09/go...ng-old-school/

From the link above.

GGR skipper Guy Waites told me that there were only two beacons covering the route of their pre-GGR race from Gijon in northern Spain across the Bay of Biscay to Les Sables d’Olonne. He managed to find a signal from one of them but not the other. However, GGR sailors don’t give up that easily. He tuned to BBC Radio 4 on 198 longwave, found the null spot in the signal and was able to use that as a second bearing because he knew the transmitter is in Droitwich!

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I hope he remembered to use his half-convergency tables.

Which by the way are still handy for converting GC to rhumb line.

As the Droitwich transmitter is a little inland, coastal refraction can bend the radio waves significantly however on the plus side, the bearings (apart from any refraction) will be great circles bearings.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Wotname

As the Droitwich transmitter is a little inland, coastal refraction can bend the radio waves significantly however on the plus side, the bearings (apart from any refraction) will be great circles bearings.

Not a plus unless he is using a gonomic (sp?) chart which I doubt. He needs to convert to rhumb unless he is very close to north ( eek!) or south of the transmitter.

[Fore and Aft]

Looks like a few people have got their knickers in a knot over an almost disused technology. I was actually surprised to see an RDF recommended in an official yacht race.
I would love one of Donald Crowhurst's Navicator radio direction finders as an ornament in our house. Thats a cool piece of history.
Cheers

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Not a plus unless he is using a gonomic (sp?) chart which I doubt. He needs to convert to rhumb unless he is very close to north ( eek!) or south of the transmitter.

And there was I thinking the aforementioned half convergency tables were being used to solve this issue.

Is there anything else needed?

https://maritimesa.org/nautical-scie...g-df-bearings/

[goboatingnow]

Seriously consult the latest Admiralty list of radio signals part 2

This is the definitive guide




Come back with say the med list of useful compatible RDF beacons

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I can think of one radio beacon that still works for marine navigation It marks the Goro side of the Canal de la Havannah in New Caledonia, and it broadcasts the Morse Code "G". It will keep you off the barrier reef to get to where you can see it. It is useful because the SE tradewinds tend to set you onto the reef, and it is a marine sanctuary, so that contact with it would become a legal nightmare. At springs, there are whirlpools there, too, so that staying on the "G" side of the channel is much safer. I have to apologize here, for mis-remembering. It is a RACON transponder, a radar, not a radio beacon. Jim just told me, now, about 2hrs later. Sorry.



Arguing about obsolescence of radio direction finding here on CF is way, way odd to this observer. Somehow the word has become pejorative, and folks are defending its use. Here are a couple of definitions care of Mr. Google:



no longer produced or used; out of date.

"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"

Similar:

out of date

outdated

outmoded

old-fashioned

no longer in use

disused

fallen into disuse

superannuated

outworn

antiquated

antediluvian

anachronistic

discarded

discontinued

old

dated

antique

archaic

ancient

fossilized

extinct

defunct

dead

bygone

out of fashion

out

behind the times

démodé

passé

vieux jeu

old hat

out of the ark

geriatric

prehistoric

past its sell-by date

antwacky

Opposite:

contemporary

current

modern

new

up to date

2.

BIOLOGY

(of a part or characteristic of an organism) less developed than formerly or in a related species; rudimentary; vestigial.



I guess #2 refers to vestigial organs like our appendixes. One can see that some of the synonyms are more emotionally charged than others.



Maybe some folks would do better to go sailing. To me, it is that the "tempest in a teapot" that developed here would not have happened at all, if the question had been framed -- not as obsolete -- but as "uncommon," because most of us know that many of the rdf radio beacons have been discontinued.



So, to the OP: not completely obsolete; and there are many more aids to navigation that one can use. The use of AM radio receivers to find transmitters on those frequencies has been an emergency backup for a very long time, indeed.



Ann

Largely defunct, out of date , discarded site that’s small boat RDF.

These are the facts :

Am radio stations are not good RDF sources for various reasons

Costal radio stations have largely discontinued marine beacons

I don’t think anyone is making small boat RDF Units.

Of course nothing that exists can be considered obsolete

But for “ practical “ purposes it is obsolete as it applies to most sailors , irrespective of its inclusion in a rather niche race.

facts speak louder then opinions except of course on social meeedia

[thomm225]

More on current uses of Radio Direction Finders. (besides their use/requirement in the 2022 Golden Globe Race)

Radio Direction Finding: An Essential Tool for Search and Rescue

https://rhothetaint.com/radio-direct...ch-and-rescue/

[Rumrace]

When we first got GPS 2 of us were locking in the Severn River. Both our screens showed our boats 12’ on land and not in the same direction. The Loran c system was still up and out of habit we both turned off the units and switched to loran C on the Bay. GPS was an overpriced novelty which didn’t work well was black and white like pong. Good news is mine still works cause they built gear to make you happy once. Great for the dinghy bag.