Are radio direction finders completely obsolete?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Cynara

There are still AM band radio stations. Do they still print the location on the charts

Sometimes but there are issues using long wave stations and many long wave stations are gone or closing down ( all BBC’s for example )

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Derek Lumb

RDF may be obsolete for the cruising sailor but RDF is still used by the SAR services to locate a casualty. All the RNLI All Weather lifeboats and the Atlantic 85 inshore lifeboats have direction finding kit on board. The UK coastguard decommissioned their RDF equipment some years ago. You may hear a casualty being asked to count down numbers - this is to provide a signal for the lifeboat to find the direction.

The rnli equipment is vhf direction finding. It’s not RDF as we are discussing here

Radio directional finding as a technology is not obsolete. Again that’s not what’s being considered.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

Y
3. There is less chance of distraction. With a manual typewriter, there is no danger of being distracted by e-mails or Google searches. It keeps one focused on writing.

Some sailors using GPS are addicted and get stuck on the screen, they don't get their heads out of the boat and look around or connect with nature. Sailing becomes like playing a computer game. (I see this happen with my older son.)

This is a big one for me, I struggle with it working although not sailing or flying. Its why American flew an airliner into a mountain.

The cockpit of the future is a computer, a dog, and a pilot. The computer is there to fly the plane. The man is there to feed the dog. The dog is there to bite the man if he tries to touch the computer.

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

My daughter an ex lawyer now a diplomat , three of my closest friends are lawyers , one is a partner . None have admitted to using mechanical typrewriters ever.

Here is a newspaper article about lawyers and doctors using manual typewriters:

"Professionals like lawyers, doctors, certified public accountants make up a lot of Munoz’s clientele. Munoz says many have held onto the IBM Selectric and are starting to reinvest in the old technology in order to make sure their confidential documents stay confidential.

“You can’t hack anything that’s on a typewriter,” said Munoz. “You type it, make copies and then shred it, and that’s it.” https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/aus...s-confidential

See how I did research, read an article, and used it as reference source?

The problem with your argument style, in addition to refusing to admit that you are often wrong, is that it is largely anecdotal, based on your personal views and accounts and not based on reading, research, statistics, broad measures, or objective third parties as a source:

"My daughter is a lawyer, I know several lawyers, they don't use manual typewriters. Therefore, no one does."

"No one I know uses a RDF, therefore, they are completely obsolete."

"I don't like old, traditional sailboats, therefore the Golden Globe is dangerous and unnecessary."

"I know several people who have circumnavigated in Beneteaus. Therefore, they are bluewater boats."

On and on it goes.

[betwys1]

Originally Posted by Chotu

With boats? They are pretty much out of use.

With airplanes however? People still use them.

ILS/GBAS Approach beacons. They guide the plane down using radio direction finders, I believe

Ground-augmented GNSS does NOT use frequencies suited to either airborne or marine DF

https://skybrary.aero/articles/groun...on-system-gbas

[betwys1]

Originally Posted by Leighpilot

Yes. I can’t even find one for sale. Even if you could , it’d be more expensive than a GPS unit.

https://swling.com/blog/2016/11/radi...e-am-antennas/

[Baronkrak]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

If your receivers support GLONASS, Galileo, and/or BeiDou, you're generally pretty safe. By the time multiple satellite navigation systems have been knocked offline, something so bad has likely happened that I probably don't care much about where I am, I'd be happy to get anywhere and figure out what's going on.

Then I must be the only one that did experience GPS blackout near strategic installations.

[carioca]

You can Google the location of AM broadcast antennas to add to your charts or to use as a waypoint. Along the Texas gulf coast, there are close to 60 AM stations that could be used for navigation. Many are 5kw or higher output. Does work as a back up if GPS is inop. Before GPS, following a depth line & using radio bearings was good enough to navigate the Texas coast and Mexico.

[CdS2 Roland]

Hello,
GGR is a retro, single, non stop sailing race done in 1968 conditions. In that race RDF is a requirement.
No where else. But if someone wants to play with it ... why not.

[Jim Cate]

^^^^
I keep reading this "requirement" thing and wonder if this is real? Yes, they are ALLOWED to use RDF, but not IIRC REQUIRED to do so. When the use of satellite nav is ruled out, then RDF might well be useful in some circumstances where celestial is unavailable (fog, overcast,etc). This does not mean that RDF is not obsolete for the general population nor that it is a useful navigation technique in general for modern sailors.

All this talk made me think a bit... and I believe that there is my old hand held RDF on board, buried in a locker somewhere! But I doubt if I will try to find it today...

Jim

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

^^^^
I keep reading this "requirement" thing and wonder if this is real? Yes, they are ALLOWED to use RDF, but not IIRC REQUIRED to do so. When the use of satellite nav is ruled out, then RDF might well be useful in some circumstances where celestial is unavailable (fog, overcast,etc). This does not mean that RDF is not obsolete for the general population nor that it is a useful navigation technique in general for modern sailors.

All this talk made me think a bit... and I believe that there is my old hand held RDF on board, buried in a locker somewhere! But I doubt if I will try to find it today...

Jim

This is what I found when I research it on the GGR 2022 site: (Notice of Race)

First thing any racer does is go over the rules.

I used to race a lot at many different venues so.....

https://goldengloberace.com/download...EN_04_2022.pdf

From post# 11.

It's a requirement for the GGR 2022.

(Page 34/35)

O. Communications Equipment, shall include


O5) A hand-held watertight transceiver operating on one or more aviation
frequencies including 121.5MHz. When not in use to be stowed in a grab bag.
O6) Marine RDF able to receive marine and aviation beacons for navigation
purposes.
O7) Personal AIS beacon (PAB)
O8) A GGR Special Production AIS ALARM unit from ciel-et-marine.com
O9) A GGR “Approved” AIS TRANSPONDER set to the entrant's yacht.
O10) A handheld GMDSS VHF radio with a long-life battery (stowed in grab

[Adelie]

RDFs may be obsolete, that is no longer generally used or supported, but that doesn’t make them useless.

They work with AM broadcast Radio stations. In the US the FCC maintains a list of antenna locations, but it is some work to compile a list that would be useful and you would need to compile the list prior to departure.

[Jim Cate]

O5) A hand-held watertight transceiver operating on one or more aviation
frequencies including 121.5MHz. When not in use to be stowed in a grab bag.
O6) Marine RDF able to receive marine and aviation beacons for navigation
purposes.
O7) Personal AIS beacon (PAB)
O8) A GGR Special Production AIS ALARM unit from ciel-et-marine.com
O9) A GGR “Approved” AIS TRANSPONDER set to the entrant's yacht.
O10) A handheld GMDSS VHF radio with a long-life battery (stowed in grab

Noted. A peculiar set of equipment, perhaps appropriate for a peculiar race.

Jim

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Noted. A peculiar set of equipment, perhaps appropriate for a peculiar race.

Jim

Its hard to go back in history and live etc they way they did but this race comes pretty close to recreating history.

They won't be rounding the world in 42 days which I believe is near the new record but at a pace that can be compared to those in 1968.

Pretty interesting to observe especially for those of us that enjoy history.

Example: I just received my 1943 copy of Joseph Conrad's Book Typhoon published in 1919.

It's basically about a ship/steamer caught in a Typhoon (hurricane) and how the reliable old, dull Skipper did what he always did to get the ship and crew through.

No weather tracking back then etc

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub...42-images.html

[thomm225]

Speaking of the 1968 GGR.

Sir Robin Knox-Johnston :Sailing

Johnston's 32' boat was made of wood also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdIIYr1GdIs