Best iPad chart/navigation app

[requiem]

Originally Posted by MikeHoncho

curious if you would go through all of the R&D, marketing, and deployment of a privately (yours) owned product and offer it to the public for free with no profit? This is the free market at its finest. It's that or using a chart during a time when detail is critical and have an advertisement pop up over it. Your choice.

Depending on the product, I might offer it for free. Conversely, I'm happy to pay for chart updates, etc. What matters to me is the amount.

If you add up the costs for iSailor annual subscriptions for weather, NMEA wind sensor, NMEA echo sounder, NMEA GPS, AIS, etc it starts to add up annoyingly quickly. Sometimes an a la carte pricing model makes sense, but to me this is not such a case.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by MikeHoncho

curious if you would go through all of the R&D, marketing, and deployment of a privately (yours) owned product and offer it to the public for free with no profit? This is the free market at its finest. It's that or using a chart during a time when detail is critical and have an advertisement pop up over it. Your choice.

Have you tried OpenCPN? Never had a pop-up, don't get advertisements, if I have charts I haven't updated, still runs the same... So how does that fit the "free market at it's finest"???

I quite disagree with your assessment, obviously...

dj

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by dlj

Have you tried OpenCPN? Never had a pop-up, don't get advertisements, if I have charts I haven't updated, still runs the same... So how does that fit the "free market at it's finest"???

I quite disagree with your assessment, obviously...

dj

My pop-up comment is reference to most "free services" that usitlize advertising compared to paying for it and not having the advertising. I just went to Open CPN's website. They are a donation-based service. Perfectly fine if that is their business model and it works for them. The others are sales/subscription-based, that's their model. Curious how much you have donated to Open CPN? I can only comment on ISailor and Time Zero both of which continue to function if you stop your annual subscription utilizing non-updated charts. Its my decision to use a free/by donation service, use a subscription service, or old paper charts. But to bitch about the costs of a product by comparing it to a totally different business model that utilizes donations is apples to oranges. Just move on and use the free service and donate or don't donate.......so it fits really well, either way.
Just take the burden upon yourself and change services instead of complaining about costs or keep the service and accept what you have while not bashing the others because of costs while those who use the donate service tend no to always donate. That's the definition of free market. Look it up.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by requiem

Depending on the product, I might offer it for free. Conversely, I'm happy to pay for chart updates, etc. What matters to me is the amount.

If you add up the costs for iSailor annual subscriptions for weather, NMEA wind sensor, NMEA echo sounder, NMEA GPS, AIS, etc it starts to add up annoyingly quickly. Sometimes an a la carte pricing model makes sense, but to me this is not such a case.

Quite agree - the amount is important, that and the ability to use it outside of a paid subscription.

One thing about Navionics is I can't buy a charts package for everywhere I want. One has to buy regions. I asked them about buying a larger set and they told me I had to buy the various areas separately. When I started adding up the costs for my areas of interest 1) it was difficult to do, and 2) the costs started getting well above what I wished to spend.

OpenCPN is far better cost wise, and so far seems to be quite competitive function wise with each being a bit better in one area or another but overall the cost/benefit of OpenCPN seems to be winning by quite a margin.

dj

[dlj]

Originally Posted by MikeHoncho

My pop-up comment is reference to most "free services" that usitlize advertising compared to paying for it and not having the advertising. I just went to Open CPN's website. They are a donation-based service. Perfectly fine if that is their business model and it works for them. The others are sales/subscription-based, that's their model. Curious how much you have donated to Open CPN? I can only comment on ISailor and Time Zero both of which continue to function if you stop your annual subscription utilizing non-updated charts. Its my decision to use a free/by donation service, use a subscription service, or old paper charts. But to bitch about the costs of a product by comparing it to a totally different business model that utilizes donations is apples to oranges. Just move on and use the free service and donate or don't donate.......so it fits really well, either way.
Just take the burden upon yourself and change services instead of complaining about costs or keep the service and accept what you have while not bashing the others because of costs while those who use the donate service tend no to always donate. That's the definition of free market. Look it up.

You pretty much completely missed my point - you were saying how you could get a pop up when in a tight navigational point because of the business model of paid advertising. I don't feel any app/software/whatever that one might be using for navigation should ever do that, and I won't support any that do. I also will not support any app/software/whatever that mandates keeping a paid subscription to be able to use what, in my opinion, I've already paid for. I won't subscribe to that business model either. And it seemed to me you implied that these models are "good" free market activity. Something which in this specific area of navigation I do not accept. Nor do I feel it should be accepted by anyone as it creates a problem for safe navigation. But no problem, I'll move on.

dj

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by requiem

There is one app I just learned about! NMEA remote, which could be used in a split-screen mode with a separate chart app, as described at https://forums.ybw.com/index.php?thr...-chart.505161/

Otherwise, no real changes on my end, still use SEAiq for most things, and may refer to others (iSailor/Navionics) should occasion demand.

I've played briefly with Aqua Map and iNavX but the UI just didn't work for me. I keep OpenCPN around for chart comparison and to keep aware of features, but find it a bit fiddly for "production" use.



All of the above?

Location specific: For inland lakes and rivers, Navionics might be the only inexpensive source of charts. (I believe you can subscribe to Navionics charts using iNavX though, and Aqua Map also indicates they have merged inland lake data.)

Personal preference: Different apps have different ways of creating routes, changing between charts, etc, and you might find one more intuitive (or annoying) than another.

Functionality: Navionics is a perfectly cromulent chart viewer that also has routing capability and a decent display of tides and currents. It also has basic AIS functionality with course vectors (but apparently no CPA?! info). Some of the features that are lacking (and that I actually use) include:

• Being able to plot traditional fixes (visual/radar/etc)
• Being able to mark out boundaries (e.g. no-go-areas) and add notes from LMNs
• Being able to add clearing bearings, etc
• Having access to all chart information, e.g. data quality and survey dates
• Ability to use magnetic north (this I don't use much)
• Integration and display for boat instruments (wind speed/direction, heading, speed, etc)

A question for any of you Navionics users out there:

Is it still impossible to

1. Place a permanent waypoint (or whatever they call them) on the chart using lon/lat When I last tried Navionics you could only place it with a touch or a cursor.
2. Can you change the position of a [waypont. pin. etc] with lon/lat?
3. Can you create a route from existing waypoints?

These are critical (to me) navigation functions I use daily and without them the tool seems amateurish ' I did call Navionics customer support a while back and was told that these functions do not exist.

By the way, I use OpenCPN as the navigation tool of reference on my boat and I duplicate the charts and routes on my android tablet using a software package called Sail Racer. It is primarily a racing package but it interfaces with my B&G Hercules system and adds a lot of additional functionality and we find it useful for piloting, if possibly a bit "geeky" for some.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by wingssail

A question for any of you Navionics users out there:

Is it still impossible to

1. Place a permanent waypoint (or whatever they call them) on the chart using lon/lat When I last tried Navionics you could only place it with a touch or a cursor.
2. Can you change the position of a [waypont. pin. etc] with lon/lat?
3. Can you create a route from existing waypoints?

These are critical (to me) navigation functions I use daily and without them the tool seems amateurish ' I did call Navionics customer support a while back and was told that these functions do not exist.

Ah, I tried to be nice and not make an "Easy Bake oven" comparison, but you have reminded me of another reason so many of these apps aren't suitable replacements for paper.

To the first item, you can: tap the search icon, then tap lat/long in the top right to enter coordinates. It will then jump to that location and you can tap the popup to add a marker.

However, editing an existing mark doesn't seem possible, and the closest you get with route creation appears to me creating a route between two existing waypoints.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by dlj

You pretty much completely missed my point - you were saying how you could get a pop up when in a tight navigational point because of the business model of paid advertising. I don't feel any app/software/whatever that one might be using for navigation should ever do that, and I won't support any that do. I also will not support any app/software/whatever that mandates keeping a paid subscription to be able to use what, in my opinion, I've already paid for. I won't subscribe to that business model either. And it seemed to me you implied that these models are "good" free market activity. Something which in this specific area of navigation I do not accept. Nor do I feel it should be accepted by anyone as it creates a problem for safe navigation. But no problem, I'll move on.

dj

Well we are on the same page because you missed mine. For the record non eof the nav apps I have pop ups but this is a very common tactic for apps that are offered for free and also offer a paid version for no pop ups.. I have a hard time believing this isn’t well known.

[MultiCountryDon]

Back to the purpose of the post:
Navionics on one screen, Aqua Maps on the other zoomed in close.

[MultiCountryDon]

Just to add to my above post:
I just bought another boat in Thailand today-will outfit exactly as above-perfect!
Don

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

If that were the case, then the app should simply stop updating with the end of the subscription. That's common for software on all platforms (or you have to pay for updates). But in this case, the subscription applies to charts which run on the app. Aqua Maps removes charts without an active subscription. I don't like this approach.

Fair enough, your call.

I meant to say earlier (but forgot) that Aqua Map updates US charts OFTEN. Seems like every month or so... as if they incorporate LNMs monthly or some such.

Just mentioned here for the audience...

-Chris

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I asked the company, and got a prompt response:


So, don't let your subscription lapse, otherwise all your charts will go Pffftt.

To me, this is a serious negative. Too bad, because I really was leaning towards Aqua Maps.

This is why i dropped Aquamaps after a brief trial period. Navionics for me.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

I meant to say earlier (but forgot) that Aqua Map updates US charts OFTEN. Seems like every month or so... as if they incorporate LNMs monthly or some such.

NOAA applies updates weekly. For example, I checked the "Pt Arena to the Mexican border" box, and there's almost always an updated batch each week (see screenshot, I'd guess ~5-10% of charts are updated each week).

These don't include the LNM items, but since they both tend to be released around Thursday I can sit down, hit the "Update" button on the pop-up, then go through the LNM and manually add notes for any relevant notices (often changes to lights, buoys, or simply areas to avoid).

If you're curious you can see each week's changes at https://distribution.charts.noaa.gov/weekly_updates/

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by requiem

NOAA applies updates weekly. For example, I checked the "Pt Arena to the Mexican border" box, and there's almost always an updated batch each week (see screenshot, I'd guess ~5-10% of charts are updated each week).

These don't include the LNM items, but since they both tend to be released around Thursday I can sit down, hit the "Update" button on the pop-up, then go through the LNM and manually add notes for any relevant notices (often changes to lights, buoys, or simply areas to avoid).

If you're curious you can see each week's changes at https://distribution.charts.noaa.gov/weekly_updates/

Yep, understand what NOAA does.

I was meaning that AquaMap updates their charts often, incorporating recent NOAA info.

Furuno/TimeZero/MapMedia only do annual updates to their NOAA chart files.

IOW, the app/electronics folks don't work as fast as NOAA... but some are faster than others.

-Chris

[Mike OReilly]

At this point I should ask, or confirm, which apps allow you to keep downloaded charts even after the subscription has lapsed, and which ones don't.

I believe these apps DO NOT bar access (require an active subscription) to previously downloaded charts:

• iNavx
• SeaIQ
• Navionics
• TZ iBoat
• iSailor

And these apparently DO require an active subscription

• Aquamap
• CMap

Please correct me if I've got any placed in the wrong category, or if I've missed any.