Canadian Hydrographic Service (CHS) charts

[boat driver]

I agree generally the rocks do not move.
When further north think logical and watch the water carefully, as a sudden funny wave section or swirl may be signs something under the surface.
Ideally cruising when can follow the soundings available like the steamer tracks- they will alert a topography change underwater.
Do be sure to get the correct offsets for the charts utilized- particularly the older ones.
The fathometer/fishfinder is your friend.

chart updating is a bit of an misunderstanding. Chart corrections are issued when something on the chart is changed. When significant changes are made- then a new chart is issued. therefore-the idea that Garmin (or whoever) updates Jan 1 or when the chart is sold does not necessarily mean it is outdated or updated.
Canadian charts are generally not updated often except in commercial ports- the main channels get surveyed often- but not the surrounding shallows.

If any consultation, fifteen years ago the Queen Elizabeth 2 ran over ice age boulders south of Cape Cod...not noted on a most recent updated chart. just mentioning.

[Ardbeg]

OK I did the trip to Maritimes and back from Lake Ontario in 2017, the 100 year flood event! Anyway, I too was shocked by Canadian chart price however my solution was to find someone who had a complete set of charts sitting in his basement and borrow them. Cost me a bottle of whisky. I do believe that Canadian Maritime law insists on you having paper charts. I did find them useful once we got into tidal areas. They also had many notes on them from previous people who used them. That too was good information.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by emilecantin

While I understand the reasons why, it still weirds me out that something the gov does is free in the US, but horrendously expensive in Canada. The profit from digital chart sales surely can't be that much in the total federal budget? Do they even get a million from it?

I wonder if we could get a political movement going around that. It wouldn't be too hard (legally) to mandate the publication of free electronic charts from CHS; il could be positioned as a maritime safety issue. If the PCOC passed, we can probably pass that too.

A political movement to help shift the cost of producing charts from those wealthy boat owners, who are a very small minority, to all the (majority) taxpayers?

And deprive those private companies and their lobbyists of their obscene profits from charts which are required by law to be carried, and up to date?

Good luck with that.

[Shawanaga]

Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25

If you want real knowledge by a real cruiser who has done the trip a dozen times in A Pearson 26 as well as around the world in A Dufour 36 the guide to get...that tells you about the tides and when to leave if you want to get there at 6 knots, the Guide de Navigation is titled: " En suivant le St Laurent ", de Montreal a la Baie des Chaleurs, second edition by Jean-Leon Girard et Michel Cote.
order from: pgosselin2001@yahoo.ca

Merci pour ces informations! I sent an email asking how to purchase and hope to hear back soon. That book sounds like a great source of local knowledge.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by kendalk

By the way in Canada, the Canadian regulations require "paper" charts be on board the vessel.

We are planning on the down east circle route and I failed to find anything that specified that you must have paper charts... in fact just the opposite:

"Vessels of any kind in Canada have an obligation to carry and use official charts and publications issued by or on the authority of the Canadian Hydrographic Service, and to keep them up to date. The chart carriage regulations are listed in the Charts and Nautical Publications Regulations, 1995 under the Canada Shipping Act, 2001.


CHS digital charts meet the requirements of the chart carriage regulations under certain circumstances:
CHS Electronic Navigational Charts (ENCs) meet the requirements provided they are used with an Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS).

I interpret that as being either a tablet, a phone, or a chartplotter because the only requirement is that it be compatible with IMO regulations.. specifically

"Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS) means a navigation information system which, with adequate back up arrangements, can be accepted as complying with the up-to-date chart required by regulation V/19 & V/27 of the 1974 SOLAS Convention, by displaying selected information from navigation sensors to assist the mariner in route planning and route monitoring, and by displaying additional navigation-related information if required."

[Shawanaga]

Neat! I had no idea that my home-brew boat network would meet the requirements of the Canada Shipping Act.
By the way, the boat network is under construction, but consists of GPS, AIS class-B, sensors, NMEA mux, rasp-pi0-w. Tablets, phone, and laptop running OpenCPN connect to pi0-w over wifi, which serves filtered NMEA0183 data over WiFi. If it all comes together correctly this summer, perhaps worth another thread. Sounds like I can claim that it's a semi-legit ECDIS.
Now if I could only afford to acquire those CHS ENCs

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Shawanaga

Neat! I had no idea that my home-brew boat network would meet the requirements of the Canada Shipping Act.
By the way, the boat network is under construction, but consists of GPS, AIS class-B, sensors, NMEA mux, rasp-pi0-w. Tablets, phone, and laptop running OpenCPN connect to pi0-w over wifi, which serves filtered NMEA0183 data over WiFi. If it all comes together correctly this summer, perhaps worth another thread. Sounds like I can claim that it's a semi-legit ECDIS.
Now if I could only afford to acquire those CHS ENCs

So apparently Navionics data, even though it is produced from the CHS data, is not legal.

“This product has been produced by Navionics based on “Canadian Hydrographic Service (CHS)” data, following any minimum standards/guidelines that may have been established by CHS, pursuant to CHS Digital Value-Added Reseller Agreement No.2017-1114-1260-N. The incorporation of data sourced from CHS in this product shall not be construed as constituting an endorsement by CHS of this product. This product does not meet the requirements of the Charts and Nautical Publications Regulations,1995 under the Canada Shipping Act, 2001. Charts and publications issued by or on the authority of CHS must be used to meet the requirements of those regulations.”

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by Shawanaga

Neat! I had no idea that my home-brew boat network would meet the requirements of the Canada Shipping Act.

It doesn't ...

(3) The chart may be in electronic form only if
(a) it is displayed on an ECDIS or, in the case of failure of the ECDIS, on a back-up arrangement
...
9 Every ECDIS shall meet the performance standards set out in the annex to IMO Resolution A.817(19),

There is a get-out for not being required to have paper charts ...

(2) The master and owner of a ship of less than 100 tons are not required to have on board the charts, documents and publications referred to in subsection (1) if the person in charge of navigation has sufficient knowledge of the following information, such that safe and efficient navigation in the area where the ship is to be navigated is not compromised:
(a) the location and character of charted
(i) shipping routes,
(ii) lights, buoys and marks, and
(iii) navigational hazards; and
(b) the prevailing navigational conditions, taking into account such factors as tides, currents, ice and weather patterns.

Lots of people don't carry paper charts, and nobody gets in trouble for it ... maybe having the info displayed on a screen in front of you counts as having "sufficient knowledge".


I just bought a chart for one of the places I'm dreaming of going this summer ... and it has several blank areas labelled "unsurveyed" ... official charts ain't perfect.

[Mike OReilly]

Don’t stress about the regulations regarding chart ownership in Canada. I have never even heard of anyone’s ‘friend of a friend’ being accosted by authorities over this. I suppose it might come into play if someone is grossly negligent, which leads to a major investigation, but if that’s the case this person probably deserves to have the book thrown at them.

I’m not in any way suggesting we shouldn’t be carrying all the proper charts, but do it just because you think the law demands it.

[Lepke]

Raster-Vector detail
I talked to the US Hydro about the appalling lack of detail on vector charts and was told there's a file size limit for vector.
I use raster because I'm an old time navy trained navigator. I used paper charts all my life and use much of the added info on raster charts.

There are charting programs that will allow you to superimpose multiple charts. Or so NOAA told me. They gave me a few names of programs but I can't seem to find it. But you're supposedly able to put weather, etc., over the chart you're using.

[hamburking]

I sail mostly on Lake Ontario and the St Lawrence River.

I suggest you get the Richardson's chart book for each of the lakes you are going through. They are excellent, and cheap compared to individual charts.

For those not familiar with Richardson's, they are chart books that cover a whole great lake. Although they say in LARGE PRINT they are not for navigation, they are copies of the real charts, in book form, and cost a little over $100 cdn.

Richardson's, combined with a handheld GPS like a garmin etrex is a good backup for your electronics, and in fact all I used for many years of cruising.

Lately I bring the chartbook and gps (as backup) but use navionics on my phone for actual navigation. Its just too easy and too cheap.

I use the PORTS books as well. But they are more about the amenities ashore. But PORTS does give excellent info on approaching and entering harbours, as well as convenient waypoints for your handheld GPS.

A few years back I did a transatlantic delivery. The skipper put me in charge of getting all the charts, electronic charts, and guidebooks. It was expensive (for him). I bought the minimal amount of paper charts as backups for the electronics. In the Canaries we bought charts for Cape Verde, just in case, but resisted buying charts of the african coast.

The paper charts were wonderful for planning and visualizing the approaches.

I must give credit to THE NAUTICAL MIND BOOKSTORE in Toronto that was a great source of information, charts and books, in addition to overnight delivery.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Don’t stress about the regulations regarding chart ownership in Canada. I have never even heard of anyone’s ‘friend of a friend’ being accosted by authorities over this. I suppose it might come into play if someone is grossly negligent, which leads to a major investigation, but if that’s the case this person probably deserves to have the book thrown at them.

I’m not in any way suggesting we shouldn’t be carrying all the proper charts, but do it just because you think the law demands it.

Every summer, at least once, I get stopped by a passing (power) boater asking for directions...showing me that they are equipped with only a Texaco Road map for navigation. Shocking.

Navigation on most of the great lakes is straighforward....coastline and lake. Occasional town/harbour. The thousand islands is where it gets interesting. This is where a big paper chart is very helpful.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Every summer, at least once, I get stopped by a passing (power) boater asking for directions...showing me that they are equipped with only a Texaco Road map for navigation. Shocking.

Navigation on most of the great lakes is straighforward....coastline and lake. Occasional town/harbour. The thousand islands is where it gets interesting. This is where a big paper chart is very helpful.

Must not say something disparaging about powerboaters… must be strong…

Like I say, I’m not in any way suggesting peoples shouldn’t carry the proper charts. Richardson’s is a great option if you’re travelling large areas (despite every page being stamped “Not for Navigation”). The 1000 Islands definitely demands careful navigation. There I would want the most up-to-date paper and digital charts available.

[Shawanaga]

Originally Posted by Kelkara

I just bought a chart for one of the places I'm dreaming of going this summer ... and it has several blank areas labelled "unsurveyed" ... official charts ain't perfect.

Those blank areas are good! At least you know where the surveyors gave up in disgust. Eastern Georgian Bay is full of those areas: more bedrock shoals than navigable water.

The really criminal thing is for a vendor or program to display depth contours where it should be left blank, with a big fat warning. Mentioning no names (ahem: Garmin/Navionics ahem).

[Shawanaga]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Don’t stress about the regulations regarding chart ownership in Canada. I have never even heard of anyone’s ‘friend of a friend’ being accosted by authorities over this.

Yeah, I've never heard of anyone being asked about whether they are carrying any kind of charts. Hard to imagine the Canadian Coast Guard bothering with this when they've got much more important things to do.

To be clear: I want to carry the best possible chart data for safety of boat and crew. Not too fussed about the legalistic niceties.