Class-B AIS and NMEA2000

[s/v Jedi]

Hi all,

Another thread reminded me about the incomplete implementation of class-B AIS on N2K. I think NMEA published the standards for class-B PGNs 1.5-2 years ago.

I saw somebody (must be Dave :-) mention that the Raymarine AIS does send all PGNs for class-B. I also knew that the Simrad AI50 did NOT do that because it was launched before these PGNs were published. So, I sent an email to Simrad and they confirmed full compatibility now (their mail included below).

So I got this idea to find people here with plotters and/or AIS units with N2K and see if they at least support the PGNs which means that they should work together.

The following 4 PGNs are the core of what we would need to see the targets on our screen with full details (according to Simrad):

129038 Class A Position Report
129039 Class B Position Report
129040 Class B Extended Position Report
129794 Class A Static and Voyage Related Data

So, which plotters will listen for these and display targets... and which other AIS units transmit these PGNs?

cheers,
Nick.
--------
Hello,

Here is the list of PGN's transmitted. (by Simrad AI50)

SimNet/NMEA2000 PGN’s

NMEA2000 Mandatory PGNs
59392 ISO Acknowledgment
59904 ISO Request
60928 ISO Address Claim
126996 NMEA2000 Product Information

NMEA2000 Data PGNs
126992 System Time
129025 Position, “Rapid Update”
129026 COG & SOG, “Rapid Update”

NMEA2000 AIS PGNs
129038 Class A Position Report
129039 Class B Position Report
129040 Class B Extended Position Report
129792 DGNSS Broadcast Binary Message
129793 UTC and Date Report
129794 Class A Static and Voyage Related Data
129795 Addressed Binary Message
129796 Acknowledge
129797 Binary Broadcast Message
129798 SAR Aircraft Position Report
129800 UTC/Date Enquiry
129801 Addressed Safety Message
129802 Broadcast Safety Message
129803 Interrogation
129804 Assignment Mode Command
129805 Data Link Management Message

Simrad/SimNet Proprietary PGNs
130844 Bluetooth Control
65323 Group Setup Message
130840 DataUserGroup Configuration
65332 Remote Control
61184 Simrad/SimNet Parameter command
65480 Simrad/SimNet Parameter reply
130842 AIS & VHF Message Transport

[s/v Jedi]

Let me post the first answers myself

A quick Google shows that the following devices support them:

- Garmin AIS 300
- Garmin AIS 600
- Garmin GPSMAP 700 series
- Actisense NGT-1
- Comar AIS2000
- Furuno Navnet 3D plotters (NOT the AIS module which has no N2K)

The question left of course is if these claims of the manufacturers are true and if their implementation actually works.

cheers,
Nick.

[GPSNavX]

I am using a Garmin VHF 300 AIS with MacENC (BETA Version) and Actisense NGT-1 to plot AIS targets using N2K data. I am seeing both AIS class A and class B position and static reports. I did have to use the Actisense NMEAReader program to enable the N2K AIS PGNs.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by GPSNavX

I am using a Garmin VHF 300 AIS with MacENC (BETA Version) and Actisense NGT-1 to plot AIS targets using N2K data. I am seeing both AIS class A and class B position and static reports. I did have to use the Actisense NMEAReader program to enable the N2K AIS PGNs.

Okay, that's cool; assuming you get details from class-B targets like length & name of the boat then this proves that the Garmin's do transmit them and the Actisense does interpret them.

I'm starting to believe the whole issue has been worked out and all N2K AIS kit actually works together regardless of manufacturer

I am still impressed by the Simrad AI50 unit... I would have thought somebody would have come up with a unit that beats it by now but all I see is black box developments.

cheers,
Nick.

[goboatingnow]

Nick

The Raymarine AIS500, is fully NMEA2k compatible, and works over seatalkng to C-wide, E and G series plotter, I used it recently on a sail from france to greece.

Id have to say its a personal preference, but I cant see the point of standalone AIS color screens, Its way better integrated into the plotter.


Dave

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The Raymarine AIS500, is fully NMEA2k compatible, and works over seatalkng to C-wide, E and G series plotter, I used it recently on a sail from france to greece.

Id have to say its a personal preference, but I cant see the point of standalone AIS color screens, Its way better integrated into the plotter

Hi Dave,

Okay, I think we can assume that the AIS data actually came over via Seatalk-ng (ie N2K) from AIS to plotters. So that adds the complete Ray line-up to the compatibility list.

The AI50 color-screen is a plotter too.. an AIS plotter with basic worldwide coastline map. This is added functionality as it will send all the same info onto the N2K box just like the black box AIS units do. The value of the display becomes greater the further offshore one gets (no need for full plotter display but always looking for ships :-)

ciao!
Nick.

[Beausoleil]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Okay, I think we can assume that the AIS data actually came over via Seatalk-ng (ie N2K) from AIS to plotters. So that adds the complete Ray line-up to the compatibility list...
Nick.

Assumptions will come back to bite you. I just got off the phone with Raymarine (won't mention any names...), and got confirmation that with the E-series Classic, AIS is supported only over the NMEA 0183 interface (set to 38,400 b/s). The E-series Classic will not receive or repeat AIS PNGs over their SeaTalkNG (NMEA 2000) interface, only their SeaTalkHS (IP over Ethernet) - and only to other E-series chartplotters or PCs running their proprietary chartplotting software, RNS.

So, for us, it looks like I have to find an NMEA multiplexer which has two 38.4kb/s ports in order to get AIS to our E-120 and to my PCs running Rose Point's Coastal Explorer under XP and OpenCPN under Linux.

The Raymarine guy did say that there is possibly one more firmware update for the E-series Classics in the works, but for now expanded AIS compatibility isn't in the product plan. Perhaps if enough of us "Classic" owners request it, they'll take us seriously?

[goboatingnow]

Well I talked to raymarine in the Uk recently they said that the Cwide software was released and that E series was on the roadmap. Given that the E series is due a refresh maybe this has been long fingered

Dave

[beckett]

Originally Posted by Beausoleil

Assumptions will come back to bite you. I just got off the phone with Raymarine (won't mention any names...), and got confirmation that with the E-series Classic, AIS is supported only over the NMEA 0183 interface (set to 38,400 b/s). The E-series Classic will not receive or repeat AIS PNGs over their SeaTalkNG (NMEA 2000) interface, only their SeaTalkHS (IP over Ethernet) - and only to other E-series chartplotters or PCs running their proprietary chartplotting software, RNS.

So, for us, it looks like I have to find an NMEA multiplexer which has two 38.4kb/s ports in order to get AIS to our E-120 and to my PCs running Rose Point's Coastal Explorer under XP and OpenCPN under Linux.

The Raymarine guy did say that there is possibly one more firmware update for the E-series Classics in the works, but for now expanded AIS compatibility isn't in the product plan. Perhaps if enough of us "Classic" owners request it, they'll take us seriously?

Hi Jon. I wonder how your AIS configuration has evolved since the last post?

I am researching AIS for my boat. I have dual E80 classics interconnected by SeaTalkHS.
I am evaluating at different options:
1. Raymarine AIS500 or AIS250
2. Digital Yacht AIT1000
3. Standard Horizon GX2150 Radio with AIS connected via multiplexer to E80

I have some questions if and appreciate your help if you know the answers:

I sail forty four footer and currently have no AIS system on board. What should I look for in AIS transceiver?
Are there any features that are very useful and important or they are all the same Class B receivers/transceivers?

It looks like for $350 I could get Standard Horizon GX2150 Radio with AIS receiver! I am getting a much better radio than I have on my boat plus it has AIS NMEA output that could be connected to my Raymarine E80 network.

What do you think?

thank you, Serge

thank

[goboatingnow]

At this stage of the game I would say only consider ais transceivers ( transponders) it's not worth bothering with the receive only option.

I've used the raymarine ais 500 it does what it says on the Tin and includes an internal active antenna splitter it's far from the cheapest solution. Currently until the promised software upgrade comes along you have to feed it via nmea 01 83 which means an additional convertor.

Most class b units use the same internal ais engine typically the SRT engine.

The standard horizon unit is a good VHF but really I'd wait till they release a transceiver if you want to go down that road.

Dave

[shuby]

Hi,

the messages that were/are not send are the Class B static data messages PGN# 129809 & 129810. The problem was that the static data did show up on plotters from the same manufacturer but by using proprietary messages. As far as I know Simrad has not yet implemented the official PGNs.

Here are links to read up on that:
National Marine Electronics Association - NMEA <-- choose AIS under categories

Panbo: The Marine Electronics Weblog: NMEA 2000 AIS, not yet right!

Panbo: The Marine Electronics Weblog: AIS SART plotting, & NMEA 2000 AIS problems

I was really looking at the Simrad because of the map display but as of now it is what I would like it to be.

Kind regards
Philipp

[DotDun]

Just to revive this thread....

Has anyone played with the new Raymarine AIS650?

It looks like an improvement.

N2K support
0183 support
Windose/OSX app to monitor via USB
Collect all data on SD card (dead reckoning?).

Street price <$800 US.

[djambalawa]

Originally Posted by DotDun

Just to revive this thread....

Has anyone played with the new Raymarine AIS650?

It looks like an improvement.

N2K support
0183 support
Windose/OSX app to monitor via USB
Collect all data on SD card (dead reckoning?).

Street price <$800 US.

Does look good... I see at http://www.raymarine.com/submittedfi...350_Launch.pdf it mentions the need of an "optional SeaTalkngto Device Net spur adapter" for N2K support... whatever that is...

[xymotic]

This just came out:

EM TRAK MARINE ELECTRONICS B100 AIS Class B Transceiver at West Marine

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by djambalawa

Does look good... I see at http://www.raymarine.com/submittedfi...350_Launch.pdf it mentions the need of an "optional SeaTalkngto Device Net spur adapter" for N2K support... whatever that is...

SeaTalkng is Raymarine's 'proprietary' N2K. ugh! Simrad pulls a similar trick. STng is identical to N2K, just different connectors, hence the STng to DeviceNet cable is just that, a cable with STng on one end and N2K on the other. You could do the same by lopping off the STng connector that is included and put a field installable N2K connector on (~$12). RM even uses the same color wires!