Do I need a chart plotter considering the down loadable soft ware?

[valhalla360]

Not sure about your helm layout. We can place the laptop securely inside the cabin but in view and in reach.

Worked great as a primary chart plotter for the Great Loop.

If you helm doesn't have an area protected from the weather, it won't work as well.

Any new tablet or smartphone will do just fine as a backup (pretty much all new ones come with built in GPS and you can download free charting software)

[OrangeCrush]

I had a similar situation as I brought my boat home from Rock Hall to NYC last September with an older radar and no plotter. I downloaded the Garmin app and bought an external Garmin bluetooth GPS unit since my wifi-only iPad did not have an integrated GPS. I had another iPad with iNavX as a backup that was better in some ways, worse in others.

It's definitely true that one mistake will merit the better equipment, but I felt like what I had was perfectly acceptable for that trip. We went through the C&D canal and I watched the iPad like a hawk as we hugged the shoreline of the canal to get around a huge and terrifying ship taking up the entire channel. It was blowing hard and we didn't cut any corners around Cape May so we didn't have too much stress in navigating home after the canal. We followed the 3 mile line up the coast of New Jersey and used radar to judge distances of passing ships at night.

Go with your gut, but an iPad can certainly get you where you are going. I've now installed a B&G plotter and although the basic functions are straighforward, there is a much steeper learning curve with that than with the iPad app, in my opinion. There is not a lot of coastline or shoaling to deal with, so I think that the issue of rain/sunlight can be overcome by going down below to check your position, assuming you have crew to take the wheel for you.

[Dockhead]

If you dig through the archives, you'll find endless discussion of this question.

There is no right answer to the question -- different people do it differently.

I use everything -- (a) chart plotters at helm and nav table; (b) tablets; and (c) laptop with OpenCPN. But I cruise through 10 countries and 3000 miles every summer with lots and lots of navigation to do. Every one of these has its own pluses and minuses.

If you want my personal opinion -- if I had to get rid of everything and use only one device, it would be a standard marine chart plotter. Why? Because it's daylight visible, rugged, weatherproof, and relatively crash-proof, made for purpose, and not consumer electronics.

But I love the tablets for their portability, and I love the laptop with OpenCPN and raster charts for planning on a large monitor.


If you're asking about cartography -- which I think may have been part of your question.

It really depends on what kind of areas you need to cover. Navionics and others producing cartography for plotters now sell quite large areas on single chips, and so it's not that expensive to acquire and keep up to date. Roughly 180 Euros to acquire and 90 Euros a year will cover for example all the European Atlantic coasts.

My sailing area covers three different chart regions (maybe 4), so it is unaffordably expensive to keep everything up to date. So I update the UK and Atlantic coasts ones only every two or three years, and use other up to date charts as the authoritative ones. I religiously update the Baltic set, though.

Cartography for tablets is cheaper.

For OpenCPN, you have the CM93 charts which are now well out of date but which make a superb base map. They are actually still OK for planning purposes too as long as you are really scrupulous about checking any planned passage with an up to date chart of some kind. Then for U.S. waters you can use NOAA raster or vector charts for free. If you are sailing in U.S. waters, this is pretty fantastic. I use excellent raster charts from VisitMyHarbour for UK and North European Atlantic coasts. I wish they would do the Baltic as well. The whole set only costs about 80 pounds, an unbelievable bargain.

These are official, "For Navigation" charts. The same thing in paper would cost thousands and occupy a huge amount of space. If you are sailing over large areas, it is fantastic to have a really full set of totally up to date, official charts, on board.

I also keep a large quantity of paper charts on board. I don't use them much anymore for conventional chart work, and they are all out of date, but there's still nothing like paper for really vividly visualizing a passage.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by OrangeCrush

I had a similar situation as I brought my boat home from Rock Hall to NYC last September with an older radar and no plotter. I downloaded the Garmin app and bought an external Garmin bluetooth GPS unit since my wifi-only iPad did not have an integrated GPS. I had another iPad with iNavX as a backup that was better in some ways, worse in others.

It's definitely true that one mistake will merit the better equipment, but I felt like what I had was perfectly acceptable for that trip. We went through the C&D canal and I watched the iPad like a hawk as we hugged the shoreline of the canal to get around a huge and terrifying ship taking up the entire channel. It was blowing hard and we didn't cut any corners around Cape May so we didn't have too much stress in navigating home after the canal. We followed the 3 mile line up the coast of New Jersey and used radar to judge distances of passing ships at night.

Go with your gut, but an iPad can certainly get you where you are going. I've now installed a B&G plotter and although the basic functions are straighforward, there is a much steeper learning curve with that than with the iPad app, in my opinion. There is not a lot of coastline or shoaling to deal with, so I think that the issue of rain/sunlight can be overcome by going down below to check your position, assuming you have crew to take the wheel for you.

I used an IPad in the cockpit for most of a summer while I was waiting for my Zeus Touch (first one in the UK!) to be delivered after endless delays.

It works, and I know a few people who use this exclusively.

But the drawbacks of this were really hammered home for me one night when I was entering Poole Harbour at night, picking my way through the channel with the bewildering maze of lights, when the battery died in the IPad. I suppose dropping and breaking the thing would be a not insignificant risk, also. As others have said, you can't see it in daylight, and if you don't want to risk killing it with a bit of spray, you need to put it in a waterproof bag. You have to keep it charged somehow.

It works, but for me it doesn't seem optimal.

[UNCIVILIZED]

It's always wise to have multiple ways to cross check your position. In addition to having backup nav sources when your primary (or some other one) goes down.
There are plenty of cases for pads, etc. which allow them to be used in all sorts of weather. Think Pelican Case, but with the ability to read & use the features on screen.

Keep the older radar until, & even if, you find something modern that can be overlaid/integrated with your other nav gear. As many of the older radars let the user do a lot more in terms of sensitivity tuning, which can come in real handy depending on the sea state, & what sort of obstacles are in your viciniity. Such as the floats for lobster traps for example. And being able to spot them via radar at night, or dense fog, can be priceless.

Many of the newer navigational devices, such as radar, pads, & even laptops, can be mounted on swing arm mounts. So that when needed/appropriate, you swing the screen into the companionway for ease of viewing & use. And then when it's not needed, or tough to read due to lighting conditions, or you're worried about rain damage etc., then swing it back down into the boat's interior.

One other option is to install a mid-sized hatch, or large opening port in the bulkhead of the cabinhouse which forms the front edge of the cockpit. Then you mount your nav device on a swing arm so that it's readable/usable through the hatch/porthole opening. And when appropriate, close said hatch/porthole. Said "trick" works for most navigational devices.

You can also link many of today's nav devices, along with a boat's performance sensors (wind, speed, depth, etc.) together via onboar WiFi. Thus avoiding running 101 different cables to various locations. As well as needing several types of adapters so that everything can be wired together.

Figure out which one (or two) devices you want to do your primary nav on/with, & then feed the data from everything else onboard into it (them). That way you can have everything on one or two screens if you're so inclined:
Position (Incl. Open CPN)
Heading (Magnetic, & True)
Speed (SOG, & SMG)
Radar
AIS
Wind Speed (True & Apparent)
Wind Direction (True & Apparent)
Depth
Water Temp
Barometric Pressure
VMG
CMG
Cross Track Error/Set & Drift
Polars
Leeway
Weather Data & Overlays
Current (Measured, & Models)
Distance to "home" or whatever your next desired GPS coordinates are, etc., etc....

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Who needs a chartplotter offshore. I think where they truly shine is where you are passing / crossing numerous shallows, reefs, rocks and marks. It is way easier to sail in 'navigationaly thick' areas with a chartplotter than by looking up and marking a paper map. Especially in dense rain.

b.

Agreed. Well offshore you don't need anything. I switch mine to radar display and forget the plotter. Chart plotting is for coastal pilotage.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

when the battery died in the IPad.

This is actually a huge factor. I borrowed a backup iPad "just in case" but the main reason I used both was for charging. Using a navigation app constantly runs the battery down really fast, so much so that even while charging it would lose battery power very gradually. I put one in airplane mode to charge it up while using the other one as sparingly as possible, then switched them. After 48 hours or so when we arrived, both were completely dead.

[01kiwijohn]

I have found very satisfactory performance from my laptop, OPEN-CPN and a great deal on NOAA downloaded charts. They've got me up and down the coast, across the Pacific and back oh, and did I mention the great price? They're free. Well, not really; if you're a taxpayer, you've paid for them.
While you're at it, down load the Light List and the Local Notices to Mariners, for your intended area. Add a little common sense and you'll be just fine. Enjoy your trip.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by 01kiwijohn

I have found very satisfactory performance from my laptop, OPEN-CPN and a great deal on NOAA downloaded charts. They've got me up and down the coast, across the Pacific and back oh, and did I mention the great price? They're free. Well, not really; if you're a taxpayer, you've paid for them.
While you're at it, down load the Light List and the Local Notices to Mariners, for your intended area. Add a little common sense and you'll be just fine. Enjoy your trip.

OpenCPN is an absolutely brilliant, in fact I would say, essential program. I wouldn't be without it. It is incomparably better than any other tool for passage planning, and it does a few other things surpassing well, also, like AIS display.

I wouldn't give up the plotter at the helm, but at the nav table, if I had to choose between the plotter and OpenCPN, I would choose OpenCPN.

Very often on passage I just leave the plotter at the nav table set to display radar.

[30West]

I use an iPad Air2 WiFi+cellular for all of my charts, plates, weather, and most paperwork, when flying 787 internationally. I don't navigate directly from it, I use the systems on the airplane to actually set up and track my course. The battery would never last even on a short run to Europe, much less 14 hours to Shanghai, so I plug it in to a wall socket or a pretty big battery pack. I don't like to let it get below 50% battery, just in case I can't charge it for some reason.

We do get a bit of sunlight in the cockpit, hasn't been a problem. We have a very simple holder that just kind of cradles two sides, and it doesn't go anywhere even in severe turbulence, hard landings, hard braking, etc.

I've used the same iPad on my boat with great results. The captain I hired to deliver it with me to the states had the same iPad and Navionics I had, that is what he relies on. I wasn't in the most treacherous waters from Georgian Bay to southwest Michigan, but I could easily identify and avoid the hazards there. I loved the tons of details on hazards and ports, great to zoom in and see it all, can't do that on my chartplotter.

It was tough to use in uncomfortably large waves, but only if I wanted to make inputs and calculations. As a moving map it was still excellent for telling me where I was, where ports and hazards were, and basic navigation.

The comments about it getting wet are puzzling, if that is a concern buy a Lifeproof case, they are totally waterproof. Get a glare reducing screen protector if sunlight is such a problem. Get a charge cord and battery or USB charger.

[mogulskibum]

In the mid to upper Chesapeake, a radar, new or old, is pretty much entirely unnecessary.

A depth sounder is critical.

I spent a season using a 7in Samsung Galaxy Tab in a waterproof case as a chartplotter, backed up with a smartphone. It worked fine, and would have worked better had I figured out a better mounting system for it.

But, my permanent solution was to get real marine gps system. Being purpose built, with tactile buttons, made it a bit easier to use. But, and this was important to me, the marine gps would network with the VHF radio DSC/MMSI system - that's a big, and worthwhile safety improvement IMO.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an expensive - used (and perfectly functional) garmin gpsmap 500 series sell on ebay for <$300. (5" screens are, IMO the minimum necessary size for functionality.) Networkable VHF radios with DSC are <$150 new. Any common idiot (and some uncommon ones, like me) can network the two.

You can always spend more, and you can probably figure out ways to spend less.

I take a lot of lubbers guests out for day sails - giving them a fighting chance to quickly call for help (and have exact coordinates automatically sent to the CG) with the distress button on the VHF is, well... nice ("here's how '911' works on a boat: if the worst happens - press this button and follow the instructions on this big placard right here - and the Coast Guard (and any other boats nearby) will come help").

I should note here that you can buy a VHF with GPS built in giving you the DSC distress safety feature without the chartplotter.

[etterridge]

We have lost the use of a laptop every year over the past 4 years. We are on our third phone this year. Our shutterbug friends tell us that they expect electronic probs by the third year of cruising the same digital camera. Portable hard drives have packedit in to the tune of 5 or 6.

We are diligent about cleaning exposed wire connections such as at the outdoor VHFs. We use dielectric grease, solder, shrinktube, and anything else to keep electrical devices reliable.

The USB ports on most of our failed devices were almost always the cause of failures although the iPhone accidently went for a swim a couple of months back

(This won't happen to a plotter, so long as it is bolted down.)

The marine electronics mostly an aging suite of Autohelm instruments and autopilot, soldier on. The Garmin 740s is ubiquitous here in the Bahamas. We bought ours new for $ 900. In Tampa ...oh. ....4 laptops ago. It hasn't missed a beat, even though it lives outside in the 'weather'.

We didn't even try to reload the electronic charts after the first laptop crapped out with extreme corrosion of those gold plated USB ports. A second plotter makes more sense to us.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by DrivinSteve

IMO: Ipad/phone approach does not work well in the dark,rain,sliding around in a good chop, touch screen with gloves, etc.
Consider also that they are not designed to hold up in the harsh conditions that are always present.
I would recommend spending treasure on a real chartplotter at the helm that has hard buttons to control, at least, basic functions (zoom, pan, NAVAID ID).
Keep the Iphone in a ziplock bag, padded in the oven.

My wife will disagree with you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=roLIEIjsd18

[hamburking]

Get a real chartplotter. First time its windy, rainy, bright or dark you will be glad. The ipad/laptop is great in theory, but in real life a dedicated, robust device is what you want when the wind starts to blow.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Get a real chartplotter. First time its windy, rainy, bright or dark you will be glad. The ipad/laptop is great in theory, but in real life a dedicated, robust device is what you want when the wind starts to blow.

What's not to like about an ipad?

Going into our eight season using iPads for primary navigation. In addition, we have radar, PC with Nobeltec, paper charts and iPhones. Lots of redundancy on board, but the iPads have never let us down come rain or brilliant sunshine.