GPS jamming in Flordia

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

We've become too dependent on fragile technologies that are setting us up for a fall.

Fortunately, as long as there's wind, sailboats still function.

Setting?

We're in free fall now (tritely, Rome didn't fall in a day).


Whilst others offer Panglossian 'all is well' false analogies...

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Kind of like when they added computers and fuel injection to cars and everyone bemoaned that they would never last.

This was when getting 100k miles out of a car was doing good...and that required regular tune ups and usually at least a couple significant engine repairs.

Now it's common to get 200-250k miles out of a car with no major work beyond filter and fluid changes (yeah, they list a few more things out in the manual but most people never bother)

Was getting 250-300,000 miles from cars and trucks in the early 80's, well before the additions of widespread 'computers and fuel injection'. If it is true (I've got some friends who'd definitely argue the point with you) that the relative overall life span of vehicles is 2-2.5 times longer now than it was before the addition of 'computers and fuel injection', the reasons are far more likely to be due to advances in materials technology, engineering and quality control.

[BBill]

Wow, such hostility. Gps jamming or whatever it's called has been experienced by private pilots in Florida for decades. At least back to the mid 1990s. This was an ongoing topic with the local EAA chapter (724) I was a member of back then. No NOTAMS were published to plan around. I don't remember if there were selective altitudes but the only way you found out "when or where" it happened was to fly through when they did it. The one I'm aware of was north and east of Orlando...and not exclusively in an MOA or restricted airspace. It wasn't coast to coast or anything like that either.

I was sailing offshore back when it was only celestial and RDF. Loran was near shore (where towers existed) and gps didn't exist. Learning to use a sextant was normal for offshore. I'd say even today its better to know celestial nav and not need it than not know celestial if your gps goes down.

[Cpt Pat]

And then, there is always the possibility of an attack on what's called the GPS Ground Segment. Nothing's invulnerable and the attackers are sophisticated. How much ransom do you suppose they could extract if they take down GPS?

"U.S. Coast Guard Says Ryuk Ransomware Took Down Maritime Facility"
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/new...time-facility/

[Waveguide]

Hopefully, we've all gotten past the "denial" phase that GPS can and is being jammed.

Here are two stories on jamming that is occurring now:

Norway Powerless Against GPS Interference – NRK

Space threat report catalogues China, Russia, jamming and GPS – GPS World

And here is what Russia is doing to address its own vulnerabilities: Russia’s new navigation plan reveals a fear of jamming – C4ISRNet

Since we have no electronic backup "Plan B" to GPS (GNSS), you'd better keep up your skills with a sextant!

The only mitigation (besides an expensive inertial navigation system - even those need continual recalibration with accurate position fixes) is to simultaneously utilize more than one global navigation satellite system. Personally, I use GPS, GLONASS, and Galileo.

If you have a recent smartphone, it's worth mentioning that many now use more than one GNSS constellation to improve urban accuracy (buildings blocking satellite signals). So, if your chartplotter goes keel-up, check out your smartphone's position.

Anyone sufficiently "long in the tooth" here will remember LORAN. It appears it was a real mistake to shut it down. Now, all our eggs are in one basket.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Waveguide

Hopefully, we've all gotten past the "denial" phase that GPS can and is being jammed.

Here are two stories on jamming that is occurring now:

Norway Powerless Against GPS Interference – NRK

Space threat report catalogues China, Russia, jamming and GPS – GPS World

And here is what Russia is doing to address its own vulnerabilities: Russia’s new navigation plan reveals a fear of jamming – C4ISRNet

Since we have no electronic backup "Plan B" to GPS (GNSS), you'd better keep up your skills with a sextant!

The only mitigation (besides an expensive inertial navigation system - even those need continual recalibration with accurate position fixes) is to simultaneously utilize more than one global navigation satellite system. Personally, I use GPS, GLONASS, and Galileo.

If you have a recent smartphone, it's worth mentioning that many now use more than one GNSS constellation to improve urban accuracy (buildings blocking satellite signals). So, if your chartplotter goes keel-up, check out your smartphone's position.

Anyone sufficiently "long in the tooth" here will remember LORAN. It appears it was a real mistake to shut it down. Now, all our eggs are in one basket.

LORAN was great coast wise put you right on a reef or wreck. It beat the hell out or RDF. Long in the tooth.

[a64pilot]

LORAN is if anything easier to jam than GPS, I’m fact any electronic signal is usually pretty easy to jam unless it’s frequency hopping, then you have to barrage jam and that takes a whole lot more power.
You can jam a channel on the VHF by merely holding the mike key down.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

LORAN is if anything easier to jam than GPS, I’m fact any electronic signal is usually pretty easy to jam unless it’s frequency hopping, then you have to barrage jam and that takes a whole lot more power.
You can jam a channel on the VHF by merely holding the mike key down.

I'm probably as dumb as a rock. My guess is GPS is digital and nothing like VHS
or LORAN. Probably multiple frequencies depending om the satellite or multiple from each.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I'm probably as dumb as a rock. My guess is GPS is digital and nothing like VHS
or LORAN. Probably multiple frequencies depending om the satellite or multiple from each.

Radio is radio. Jamming GPS is really pretty simple to do. It's also pretty obvious at a strategic level. The bigger concern is spoofing so you are not where you think you are. That's trickier. There are multiple frequencies but they are all known and documented - that's why GPS receivers work.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Radio is radio. Jamming GPS is really pretty simple to do. It's also pretty obvious at a strategic level. The bigger concern is spoofing so you are not where you think you are. That's trickier. There are multiple frequencies but they are all known and documented - that's why GPS receivers work.

I doubt the millinery uses the ones we use and probably not one and I doubt documented. JMHO

[requiem]

I have a question: the GPS signals are already below the thermal noise floor, so in theory adding white noise to raise the floor wouldn't change anything that isn't already the case.

Is is that they also attempt to inject data that's consistent with the GPS signal, but incorrect, as opposed to simply adding noise? Or is it just a matter of adding sufficient noise?

The spoofing thing is certainly interesting as well, I assume someone already posted a link about the mysterious "circle spoofing" around Shanghai?

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I doubt the millinery uses the ones we use and probably not one and I doubt documented. JMHO

I figured I was behind on some things, but I didn't realize women's head-wear had gotten quite so cutthroat!

[Dr. D]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I doubt the millinery uses the ones we use and probably not one and I doubt documented. JMHO

The GPS satellites transmit two signals at separate frequencies. The coarse signal is what civil applications use. The precision signal is reserved for the military.

In response to an earlier comment: Neither signal is frequency hopping. In fact, all the satellites transmit on the same frequency (one for coarse, one for precision), but each satellite modulates its output by its assigned Gold code (or PRN). The codes (developed by a smart engineer by the name of Gold) are orthogonal to each other. The receiver demodulates the received signal with each of the Gold codes. Only the code corresponding to that satellite’s PRN will yield a readable signal.

It has been a few years since I worked with this stuff, so my wording may not be perfect.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I doubt the millinery uses the ones we use and probably not one and I doubt documented. JMHO

They do. There is a developmental military code that is not yet, to my knowledge, fully deployed.

[Cheechako]

I had a ton of gps issues in Florida. I can't tell you why.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

They do. There is a developmental military code that is not yet, to my knowledge, fully deployed.

The P code signal isn't any "better" than the civilian signal since they turned off selective availability in the 90s. It's just at a different frequency so using it along with the civilian frequency allows a receiver to calculate propagation delays and hence get a more accurate signal. In the US at least you get the same thing but better with WAAS so it's not much of an advantage, and the frequency is published so jamming it is just as easy. Spoofing would be a lot harder since you have a changing code you have to load I think weekly if not more frequently.