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Moody Mike · 01-12-2018, 02:48

I replied to their email but havent heard anything back yet. It is the weekend though. I have been told on another forum that the Isailor app has plumeted in ratings in the last 48 hrs. They are trying to flog it at a workboat exhibition in New Orleans this week.I hope they realise work boats dont navigate using Ipads they have plotters. They have totaly misjudged there market.

duncanmckenzie · 03-12-2018, 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by steehl

Honestly I don't care much about their model for new purchases. Everybody can make it's on decision where and what to buy.

But what really bothers me is that they break the contracts regarding my previous chart purchases.

I'm from Europe and they are in Europe. And in Europe it's the law that marketing promises are binding elements of consumer contracts. You cannot weak this promises in T&Cs.

And one of the central points the iSailor people were bringing up from 2013 on was "Free future updates for chart folios".

The company hasn't ceased their business, only the old owners have sold it to a new company, so they are bound to all liabilities Transas made with their customers.

Of course the others are charging as well and for new purchases there doesn't not seem to be an option for free-update chart purchases, but my transactions with them has been under different conditions.

Besides a lot of charts I bought several years ago one case is very special: I bought a chart for the Aegean in July 2018 and on the app it now says "Update service until 11th of March 2018". I never received any updates even if they state the 1 year subscription is included in every purchase now.

Have you approached them about this 'restrospective' change to their terms? i am trying to get their official address so that I can know what jurisdiction they are under legally. I would have thought that a bit of pressure on them might make them make an allowance for owners of charts bought previously, but not in the future, as you say.

Moody Mike · 03-12-2018, 14:09

Heres the address I cut this from the footer of their email. Keep up the pressure . Interestingly I had 2 free updates yesterday.
Mike

Pendragon35 · 03-12-2018, 14:25

I use iSailor and have for a few years in the Chesapeake. I also use NOAA charts with OpenCPN and iNavx. I believe the Warsila change means they are charging for updates, not what you already have. Several pieces of iSailor are annual subscriptions anyway. I think it's reasonable to charge for the updates. Nothing says the program will stop working or that the existing charts won't work.

Moody Mike · 03-12-2018, 14:38

Pendragon If you only have one suite of charts its no big deal but guys like me that have most if the world charts e have built up over seveal years its very expensive to pay an annual Sub . They are charging more than the original purchase price for annual Subscription. I pay the sub for tidal or weather in the area im operating when required but to update all my charts each year would be cost prohibitive . Im now retired & live aboard. I do deliveries all over the world when I can. This year France to Greece . 2017 The East coast of Australia from Hobart to PNG . I cover a lot of ground
although I have Navionics on my main plotter I use Isailor on Ipad to plan my voyages & use it as a back up in tricky places like the Great Barrier Reef because it was updated for free every few months.
Mike

steehl · 03-12-2018, 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncanmckenzie

Have you approached them about this 'restrospective' change to their terms? i am trying to get their official address so that I can know what jurisdiction they are under legally. I would have thought that a bit of pressure on them might make them make an allowance for owners of charts bought previously, but not in the future, as you say.

Yes, I have. I started a chat on facebook with Wärtsilä (the iSailor Facebook page does not offer a chat). They are pretty responsive there but only reply with standardized marketing message - basically a copy on what they sent out via email to the existing customers. My last reply on that channel was:

Dear <name of contact person>, thanks for your reply. And I fully understand the intention of your decision and agree on them with regards to future chart sales. But you are not really answering the core point of my problem. You sold charts under the promise of free future updates. You are breaking this promise by your change. You can't limit marketing promises by terms, at least not when selling to customers in the EU. Especially bad are those cases where customers bought maps after march 18 but before the change of you model. They were promised free updates and never received a single update and even do not have a 12 month free update period. You shoud urgently revise the conditions for existing customers. Best regards, <me>

I also contacted support as they suggested. To support I wrote:

Dear iSailor Support Team,

I’ve been a happy user of iSailor for many years. Besides the wonderful app itself your way of providing free upgrades to chart folios has been a major reason for using your product.

To my understanding the promise you made on your website without any restrictions saying that you will provide free future chart updates is a binding part of any consumer contract under European Law. Please see attached screenshots from your website from 14.06.2012 and 30.08.2018 as a proof of this promise.

With your now implemented change of the app and the update model you are breaking 5 contracts you have entered with me.

I bought the following charts in the past:
Baltic Sea West on 29.08.2013 for € 21,99
Carribean Sea Lesser Antilles on on 17.12.2013 for € 21,99
Adriatic Sea on 16.03.2014 for € 21,99
European Inland Waters Bodensee on 16.03.2014 for € 13,99
Aegean Sea - Dardanneles - Bosporus on 23.07.2018 for € 38,99

The latest transaction is a little different from the others since you promised free future upgrades for that chart, and now in the app it shows „Correction Service until 11.03.2018“ (> 4 months before I bought the folio) which means I never received a correction service for this folio.
See attached screenshots from my app.

I demand that you provide as promised through your marketing free future updates for all charts I bought in the past.

In case we don’t conclude on a satisfying solution I will call the Court of arbitration of the European Commission.

No reply so far besides an auto-responder.

Moody Mike · 03-12-2018, 22:59

I havent had a reply either. Things are not going well for Wartsila they totaly misjudged their market. The app has plumeted in approval ratings. Current users like us no longer give recomendations on forums & bloggs. Many of us are requesting refunds from Apple. Navioncs is rumored to be offering discounts to Isailor customers who switch over. I gather some executives in Finland are trying to come up with a solution very quickly before ISailor fades away to dissapear like so many other apps before it. Im hoping a cashed up ex I Sailor team are now working on a new app ��

steehl · 03-12-2018, 22:59

Addition to the post before.

The current CEO of Transas seems to be Frank J. Coles. His email is probably frank.j.coles@wartsila.com or frank.coles@wartsila.com

Might be worth a try as well.

El Pinguino · 03-12-2018, 23:24

What I have just discovered would appear to be.... DO NOT go into the app store and update your i-sailor app....!!!

Mine was quite happy as it was... updated and all turned to custard....

Now wants $48.99 a year to keep my Chilean folio ( the only one I have ) updated.... FFS!..... there is four fifths of not very much updating of anything going on in Chile.... the detail in Canal Tenglo is taken straight from the SHOA chart and shows things as they were 20 years ago.... much of the survey further south dates back to Sarmiento or maybe before...

So... now they say this ..

'Each time when a chart update is available, you will see a star notification and an update button in the Chart Store. Your subscription will automatically renew unless auto-renewal is turned off at least 24 hours before the end of the subscription period. You can cancel your subscription in the Chart Store any time. All previously purchased chart folios will remain available for you and can be restored from the service via the Chart Restore function. To receive subsequent chart corrections for your purchased charts, you will need to subscribe to annual updates in the Chart Store.

I am currently tring to figure out how to turn off auto updates... they have not made it easy... it should be opt in.. not opt out.....

Moody Mike · 03-12-2018, 23:37

whatever you do dont pay them the only way to win this is if we all hold out & dont pay them 1 extra cent. See screen shot to turn off auto updates

El Pinguino · 03-12-2018, 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moody Mike

whatever you do dont pay them the only way to win this is if we all hold out & dont pay them 1 extra cent.

It seems it is an 'auto update' deal....

we shall see what we shall see... I shall be more than a little upset if they put their hand in my pocket....

steehl · 03-12-2018, 23:40

@El Pinguino:

Are you sure? To my understanding in the beginning it is opt-in. I see my charts, it says the update service is expired and I can press a button to buy a 12 month period of updates (which I won't do for now).

Moody Mike · 03-12-2018, 23:47

I updated 2 of my charts for free yesterday so im a bit confused as to whats going on. I dont think Wurtsila knows either . Im hoping for an announcement from them
this week or im shopping around & We wont be buying or recomending anything from Finland not even a Finish sauce

El Pinguino · 03-12-2018, 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by steehl

@El Pinguino:

Are you sure? To my understanding in the beginning it is opt-in. I see my charts, it says the update service is expired and I can press a button to buy a 12 month period of updates (which I won't do for now).

I think you may very well be correct... mine is saying updates expired the day I bought the folio..... and I am being offered a very tempting little star to press.... I think not.....