ISailor charts now charging annual subscription

[duncanmckenzie]

From what I understand, opting out will be done through iTunes / App Store Subscriptions area. Nothing is showing there currently on my account but presumably once ( if) I update to the latest release of iSailor something will show there. I do think the fact it is auto opt in shows the kind of thinking of Wartsala, ie hard-nosed and ** attitude.

[gmakhs]

The charts on navionics on some phones and tablets turn to low resolution after the notice to update appears , if you just reboot the app it goes back to normal , so you can still use what you have download without paying .

[Moody Mike]

Obviously its a mess nonone knows whats going on & just goes to show how badly Wartsila has handeld the whole process. I can imagine this incompetence will only flow on into the updates & most likely all of their other products . Would any of you now purcahase any Wartsila product or recomend them I think not . They have a few days to fix the probls they gave created. Perhaps they need to send the executives responsabil away for some **** Special High Intensity Training . 😉

[c.spots]

Navionics did it too, but it is very poor customer relations/ support.
They sold a product, then took away many features. This is worse than switch and bait tactics.
It wouldn’t be unreasonable if any new “purchases” were clearly listed as rentals (subscriptions).
Are they going to give us a refund, since they took back much of what we purchased? What if you bought a car, and the manufacturer took back the air conditioner and stereo, and maybe the spare tire (a safety issue)?
I haven’t even found what the annual fees are.

[Moody Mike]

Originally Posted by c.spots

Navionics did it too, but it is very poor customer relations/ support.
They sold a product, then took away many features. This is worse than switch and bait tactics.
It wouldn’t be unreasonable if any new “purchases” were clearly listed as rentals (subscriptions).
Are they going to give us a refund, since they took back much of what we purchased? What if you bought a car, and the manufacturer took back the air conditioner and stereo, and maybe the spare tire (a safety issue)?
I haven’t even found what the annual fees are.

You better sit down because if it were a car they are taking it all back . They are charging more for the Subscription than what you originally paid to buy thr chart. Thats why thousands of their customers are up in arms about it. If you go to Wurtsila on face book the EU customers are demanding legal action. Aussies are demanding Apple refund there purchase completely. Its outright theft & we should boycot there other products completely

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by Moody Mike

I did it updated without a problem Australia & a harbour in New Zealand . Initialy it said no further updates available now see pic all same as usual

Your free charts (such as Hobart and Wellington Harbours) will continue to update for free as they are free samples. Your paid charts will now require annual purchase (subscription?) to continue getting updates for another year. But if you don’t purchase then the existing charts continue to be available, just not updated.



Considering that iSailor is a free app that doesn’t have advertising this still isn’t a bad deal. Though the separate charges for each of the external connections (existing charges, not new) do make it relatively expensive. Does anyone know if these are one time charges or annual?

and and

But it is so much easier to use than the open source alternative I know about (qtVlm) and switching to a competitor like SEAiq means buying charts all over again and relearning the interface, but at $90 for all the external connections that works out cheaper than iSailor.

Does anyone use either of these apps?

[Moody Mike]

The new fees are annual around $48 per chart more than the original purchase price. Those of us who collected dozens of charts would be up for a lot of $$ to keep up to date. I cant afford to update as Im now retired.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by c.spots

Navionics did it too, but it is very poor customer relations/ support.
They sold a product, then took away many features. This is worse than switch and bait tactics.
It wouldn’t be unreasonable if any new “purchases” were clearly listed as rentals (subscriptions).
Are they going to give us a refund, since they took back much of what we purchased? What if you bought a car, and the manufacturer took back the air conditioner and stereo, and maybe the spare tire (a safety issue)?
I haven’t even found what the annual fees are.

Huh? So far they’ve only taken away free updates to existing charts - everything else is as it was.

What else do you consider that iSailor has “taken back”? And what annual fee? It is a free download to get and use the app. You have to pay for charts and external data connections, as you always have had to do. Only the free updates are gone - you can use your purchased charts without additional payments. That’s exactly the same as the charts you purchase for your chart plotter.

To use your car analogy, this is like buying a car and being promised free service for an undisclosed period of time, then after a year or two the dealer informs you that from now on you will need to pay for service. It is not like taking away parts of the car.

[Moody Mike]

You now have to pay an anual subscription of $48 per chart to get updates. Updates were free & charts were updated often.
They are charging more for the annual subs than the original purchase cost.

[Moody Mike]

If the subs were around 10% of purchase cost no would have worried but those of us who have many charts are up for a lot of $ . I have used my Med charts my Pacific & Australia in the last 12 months. I paid for a service that offered free updates that's why I & others purchased this App over others .

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by jkleins

I am finally coming around to this reality as I really cannot see any other way for a software company to stay in business these days.

Jim

just saw this since my friend said he will quit isailor for opencpn

How can opencpn stay in business "these days" if the product is for free?

It is pretty clear to me it is immoral to charge a fee for something that cost nothing to produce (duplicate or copy software) It cost no more to make 1 or 1 million copies. Furthermore, they aren't even making the chart data, they don't have survey vessels.

I have heard all the arguments, but in the end it's the same. And you don't even have the freedom to modify the source code!! I wouldn't use it if they didn't charge anything and provided a whole world of charts, it might still crash you (program or even the boat itself) and you can't even fix it.

Now they brag about routing upcoming, but already we have free for many years! And more free features they will never have!

Always the free software is the best software, long live GPL and freedom while the plight of misinformed users brings laughter, it's not so bad you can switch any time.

[fxykty]

What am I missing? Why all the angst?

Existing or new purchased charts will continue to work after the first year of free updates expires. If you don’t want to pay annually to continue getting updates, then your charts continue to work. This is just like a commercial chart plotter and the charts you purchase for that, isn’t it?

Have the charts gotten more expensive? I haven’t checked and bummer if they have, but they’re still comparable in price to buying charts from Navionics for my plotter. And I don’t pay for annual updates for those either.

OpenCPN is an option for anyone, but it doesn’t run on a phone that I know of, hence the desire for a phone navigation app. And you still need to buy charts and updates for those areas that don’t have free chart sources. Besides, redundancy with multiple apps and chart sources is a reason to maintain more than one navigation system.

[Moody Mike]

Originally Posted by fxykty

What am I missing? Why all the angst?

Existing or new purchased charts will continue to work after the first year of free updates expires. If you don’t want to pay annually to continue getting updates, then your charts continue to work. This is just like a commercial chart plotter and the charts you purchase for that, isn’t it?

Have the charts gotten more expensive? I haven’t checked and bummer if they have, but they’re still comparable in price to buying charts from Navionics for my plotter. And I don’t pay for annual updates for those either.

OpenCPN is an option for anyone, but it doesn’t run on a phone that I know of, hence the desire for a phone navigation app. And you still need to buy charts and updates for those areas that don’t have free chart sources. Besides, redundancy with multiple apps and chart sources is a reason to maintain more than one navigation system.

Why the angst well we bought & paid for something we recomended it others who did the same so it grew & grew. Its biggest selling point was the free upgrades & they came around often. I understand if your wealthy it doesnt mean much but most the people who use this app do so because they cant afford a plotter. If I buy something I expect to get what I paid for. They told us free upgrades & there were no anual subscriptions. If you dont undersrand why we are anoyed Im sorry I cant help you.

[blubaju]

Look for opencpn on googleplay, you will find even 2 versions, i went for the "expensive" one.

Navionics, If you know ahead that the update is bad, nobody would buy it.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by blubaju

Look for opencpn on googleplay, you will find even 2 versions, i went for the "expensive" one.

Navionics, If you know ahead that the update is bad, nobody would buy it.

I see there are a couple of Android apps but I’ve got an iPhone so no joy for my phone. Happy using it on my laptop, but want something for phone and iPad. My wife is on Android so we’ll give it a try.

Anyone notice any drawbacks to the free version vs the paid version? I see the free one was last updated November 2015 so that’s pretty old, while the paid up was last updated August 2018. That’s a bit more reassuring.