Mayday calls - where is that exactly?

[JBP]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

That’s not your problem. CG radio does not get thousands of responses and certainly doesn’t want 1000s turning up to a distress alert anyway. Always contact CG radio before attending a designated distress.

Remember it’s not the same under GMDSS. GMDSS moves the command and control away from ships and into mrcc centres. What’ve people here are describing is the old SOLAS convention that has been amended with GMDSS adoption .

GMDSS is badly understood amongst US pleasure operators cause of lack of formal radio training. Elsewhere formal radio covers GMDSS rescue strategy comprehensively

That's not the point. The one person who might be in the area does not know it. Most of the time these are not GMDSS calls. They are "any vessels in the area of xyz are requested to be on the lookout for ..." Suggesting that thousands of people ask the CG to repeat a call with more details about where "xyz" is not a viable solution to the CG using obscure local names where the coverage area is huge. .

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JBP

That's not the point. The one person who might be in the area does not know it. Most of the time these are not GMDSS calls. They are "any vessels in the area of xyz are requested to be on the lookout for ..." Suggesting that thousands of people ask the CG to repeat a call with more details about where "xyz" is not a viable solution to the CG using obscure local names where the coverage area is huge. .

The expectation under GMDSS that the on scene commander is in control of the distress , this is the Mrcc dealing with the distress and is the ch radio station normally. It therefore has the primarily controlling role to task assets and that includes any potential responders. If it feels enough rescue assets are tasked or you are not appropriate then you will be asked not to attend. Hence it’s importsnt that the instructions of the on-scene commander is followed. This is usually handed over to an actual on-scene commander like a SAR helo , or military or police vessel or failing that a ship tasked. .

CG will,also be using AMVER to locate suitable assets and latterly AIs records.

The key thing with th GMDSS is to make contact with the Mrcc , establish where the distress is and what help you can contribute

Therefore it’s entirely appropriate to contact the CH radio station , determine if you can help and if so tasked to determine the position of the casualty and the exact nature of the distress

I’ve attended 8 distress alerts , all were coordinated by the CG radio , who were happy to confirm location and nature of the distress. In fact sometimes yiu a CE dsc relay alert from the Cg which gives you lag and long of the distress. This is very common here in Greece where Olympia radio uses that mechanism.

As dsc mayday relay is deprecated , it’s now more usual to here it broadcast by voice from the CG radios station

In fact I’ve also seen PAN PAN issued by Cg radio seeking vessels in vicinity , again contacting the CG radio by DSC call is useful

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JBP

That's not the point. The one person who might be in the area does not know it. Most of the time these are not GMDSS calls. They are "any vessels in the area of xyz are requested to be on the lookout for ..." Suggesting that thousands of people ask the CG to repeat a call with more details about where "xyz" is not a viable solution to the CG using obscure local names where the coverage area is huge. .

Not sure what yiu mean all CG distress traffic , command and control is handled according to GMDSS protocols.

I did some work with. uSCG during Rescue 21 implementation several years ago so familiar with their approach.

[JBP]

On Lake Erie we frequently hear "We have received a report of a possible kayak in distress near xyz". These are not Mayday calls, not Pan Pan calls. They do not give Lat/Lng. They do not give nearest port nor city. You may be 1 mile away or 100 miles away and there is no way for you to tell unless you know the local name. Everyone on the lake calling the CG to ask if they are close does not seem like a viable thing to do. Sometimes it's just a kayaker taking a rest and someone on shore sees them. Sometimes it's someone who ran out of gas or has engine problems and wants a tow.
These are frequently not immediate emergencies or true distress calls.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JBP

On Lake Erie we frequently hear "We have received a report of a possible kayak in distress near xyz". These are not Mayday calls, not Pan Pan calls. They do not give Lat/Lng. They do not give nearest port nor city. You may be 1 mile away or 100 miles away and there is no way for you to tell unless you know the local name. Everyone on the lake calling the CG to ask if they are close does not seem like a viable thing to do. Sometimes it's just a kayaker taking a rest and someone on shore sees them. Sometimes it's someone who ran out of gas or has engine problems and wants a tow.
These are frequently not immediate emergencies or true distress calls.

Most shore radio operators will tell you the error in people copying lat Lon over the radio is huge especially blind copy almost irrespective of the nature of their speech.

The reality is you need to contact CG radio to get a verified distress co-ords but more importantly to inform them of your existence and your suitability to attend. . The golden moto of SAR is “ never have to rescue the rescuers “ SAR operators would prefer you never attended and did not risk yourself ( and possibly them ) then to attend and put yourself in harms way.

Hence if you have any inkling of being in a position to attend then contact controlling MRCC and let them know. Half the time these days that’s often by mobile phone anyway !!

Some CG radio ststions in Europe are now considering AIS distress target virtual beaconing which would make things a lot clearer

[JBP]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Most shore radio operators will tell you the error in people copying lat Lon over the radio is huge especially

Hence if you have any inkling of being in a position to attend then contact controlling MRCC

Yea, that was the OP's point. Adding nearest city or Port would would give an inkling of being in a position to attend.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

This discussion has gotten way off track from the OP's original inquiry, which can be simply answered by realizing we should know our approximate coordinates while we are underway, and understand a degree is roughly 60 n.m. and a minute is roughly 1 n.m. (longitude being less as we move toward the poles).

Exactly right. And really not a big ask for boaters, especially given that the coordinates are constantly available via any GPS system. Seems to me you have to actively avoid knowing your general lat/long to not have some a basic idea of where you are. No... not to an exact point, but close enough to know when you need to pay attention to the distress call, and when you can ignore it.

If you think you're anywhere nearby, and you've missed the details, you can then call the CG and have them repeat -- slowly if needed. The CG is not trying to make it hard. They want boaters to have the information, especially ones that may be in a position to assist.

[skipperpete]

I’m unfamiliar with US frequencies and requirements but my experience with Mayday calls was on 2182 MHz not vhf, is the US still using HF or is it only commercial vessels?

[IslandHopper]

Mayday calls are routinely made on whatever is on hand, even 27mhz....

Thats why listening watches (VHF) are still maintained commercially, although we no longer carry 27mhz....

[skipperpete]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

I’m unfamiliar with US frequencies and requirements but my experience with Mayday calls was on 2182 MHz not vhf, is the US still using HF or is it only commercial vessels?

2182 KHZ[emoji848]

[slipaway]

Originally Posted by skipperpete

2182 KHZ[emoji848]

In the US, 2182 khz is no longer monitored as a voice distress frequency. Other countries stopped monitoring it in 1999. The USCG does monitor HF DSC distress frequencies.

https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...ital-selective

[smacksman]

I keep a rough log all the time, even on other people's boats. A very small note pad with a pencil stowed in the wire roll hinge, and kept in the driest pocket I have. On my own boat, the info is written up in the log at meal times.

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by B25Matt

I've been cruising for some years now on most of the great lakes and have heard my share of mayday calls. In almost all instances, I'm left wondering, where is that exactly?

The mayday call goes out during an emergency followed immediately by a lat/long and then perhaps a range and bearing from some obscure inlet or island. I'm typically standing at the helm so I don't have a pencil and paper at the ready (fixable, i know), nor do I have total memory recall, most lat/lon keyboard entry into chart plotters are cumbersome and obscured deep in some sub menu.

It seems almost pointless. It's also frustrating because I want to respond if able but what to do? Here some things I think could be improved:

The coast guard sould make reference to larger cities or land marks and then fine tune the position relative the obscure inlet or island.

Clearly stating if it is in US or Canadian waters. Their radio calls have large over lapping coverage on the great lakes. Even what body of water, eg. Toronto radio covers the western end of lake Ontario and eastern lake Erie.

What if the coast guard would transmit an AIS target?

Another beef I have is their incessant request to have the distressed vessel relay their coordinates, yet again. I understand why; people under stress can't recite a long string of numbers with any accuracy. Why not get the vessel to activate the MMSI emergency button their radios? Then there's no human error involved and everybody gets the lat/lon of the distressed vessel electronically.

Also with reference to the incessant call for position read backs, I've advised my wife that if she's ever on the receiving end of these calls that's she's to respond WHEN ABLE. In an emergency the coast guard is working for you, not the other way around. Deal with developing emergencies first, then talk.

Rant off.

First: You are incorrect in thinking "deal with the emergency", you may not have a 2nd chance to get a MAYDAY off.
2nd: You should never respond to a first call Mayday, let the proper authorities do the first response. Should there not be a response after the 2nd call, that vessel may be out of VHF radio range, typically 23NM and you may become the relay vessel. Knowing the limits of VHF, you should be aware of the Long and Lat degree for your area, thereby only having to recall the last 2 of the number. Min and seconds.

You are correct in one thing, in a real emergency, some may lose composure and there is a need to repeat various important info. As with any Mayday call, providing the required info also with any other info that would assist in quickly locating you(Like turn on EPIRB) is key.

[derfy]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It should be pointed out under GMDSS the MRCC , ie coast guard radio station is the distress coordinator until the on scene command role is established.

Hence you don’t attend a mayday unless tasked by mrcc if you feel the shore station has not responded you should simply attempt a mayday relay ( voice procedures only ). Only in the event you form the opinion that the mrcc cannot hear the distress would you attend . Even if you arrive on scene always check in with mrcc to determine if you are suitable to help and determine what rescue assets are being deployed.

Hence if you believe you can lend assistance contact the mrcc and let them do the thinking.

GMDSS works on relaying all Alerts in any sea areas to shore coordinators.

Maydays can be issued for many reasons including cold water MOB for instance

You sound knowledgeable. I would like to understand this. I find nothing the COLREGS about the obligations of a vessel receiving a distress, nor in the USCG Rules of the Road. But I do find this reference in SOLAS.



Please comment on....


SOLAS Chapter V, REGULATION 33 - Distress messages: Obligations and procedures


1 The master of a ship at sea which is in a position to be able to provide
assistance on receiving a signal from any source that persons are in distress at sea, is bound to proceed with all speed to their assistance, if possible informing them or the search and rescue service that the ship is doing so.


[It does not say to report the signal to the Coast Guard and stand by for orders.]

[Lightwave99]

Relative to this point: here on the southern B.C. Coast on our VHF radio we will fairly frequently hear broadcast something like: Pan-Pan-Pan Sailing Vessel Hopeful left Kauii Hawaii bound for Canada on July 15, 2022. Anyone hearing from or siting this vessel is asked to contact Coast Guard at..." or something like that. Then we never hear what happened to that vessel, of course. It is a bit of a concern. Did it founder? Did it and its crew just go missing? Of course, anyone leaving Hawaii much later than early July bound for Canada might experience heavy weather anyway... I wonder if there is any way to follow up on these searches?