Mother nature vs Schengen: The Transat circle

[JordanH]

Hi folks,
I'm planning a trip, departing a few years in the future and I'm looking at ways to make my time table match mother nature... when Schengen throws a spanner into the works. After reading my below restraints, what would you suggest?


Restraints...
1. Departing from Nova Scotia (or northeast USA/Canada?)
2. We cannot depart before July 1, and we must include time to prep and weather delays in the plan.
3. We need to maximize our time/enjoyment in Canary Islands as we will be visiting a close friend(like family). We would like this time to conclude around Christmas time in the Canaries +/-


Ideal route:
Halifax --> Azores (Mid-July to Mid-August)
(1 month in Azores)
Azores --> Canary Islands (Mid-sept) optional stop in Madeira
(3 months in Canary Islands)
Canaries --> Cape Verde (mid/late December)
Verde --> Caribbean (We have various islands planned, no problem here)
BVI --> Bermuda (May)
Bermuda --> Halifax (June)


For the astute reader, you'll notice that's 4-months in the Schengen area. And that means I either need to leave Halifax later pushing our trip into Late august or even september with a storm risk, or move our Canary departure forwards into November. Which, I guess is fine, but then we won't have Christmas with our friends.


What I'm looking for is other alternatives that you might suggest? There don't appear to be any terrific spots near Azores/Canaries that are outside the Schengen area... unless Morocco is a good cruising spot?? I don't know anyone that has cruised Morocco.


The way I see it is that I either need to find a way to extend the Schengen time (impossible?), find another non-Schengen destination to kill time between Azores and Canaries, or adjust my time table.


Where do you Transat migrants go between the good crossing seasons?

[Dogscout]

Gibraltar. Last I looked, Gib was not Schengen. I expect them to become Schengen, but who knows when.

[Tupaia]

Morocco is an excellent stop. The new marina in Tangier, is nicely placed to explore inland, was getting excellent reviews before the country closed due to Covid. Should be open again (soon). Tunisia a little further east is also worth a visit.



Azores - UK and back. UK is no longer in Schengen.


Gibraltar, but not a lot to do for more than a short stop, although access to international flights via UK is possible. There again you could leave the boat in Spain or Portugal and fly out of the eu for spell.

[boatman61]

Do the crossing Halifax - Falmouth, UK.. spend a couple of weeks doing Devon and Cornwall.
UK - Azores.. 4 weeks doing the islands..
Azores - Gib 1 week, then Tangier, Casablanca, Agadir and there's likely other new marinas these days.
Only suggestion is stand 2 or 3 contour lines beyond the 100m line.. its a shallow coast and swells can get troublesome.. out, then back in next stop over.

[capn_billl]

I'm looking to do the same route a year from now.

Why July?

Isn't that dangerously close to Hurricanes? they do sometimes circle up pretty far in the Atlantic.

You may be able to avoid them with weather watch, but it could get bumpy.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

Morocco is an excellent stop. The new marina in Tangier, is nicely placed to explore inland, was getting excellent reviews before the country closed due to Covid. Should be open again (soon). Tunisia a little further east is also worth a visit.



Azores - UK and back. UK is no longer in Schengen.


Gibraltar, but not a lot to do for more than a short stop, although access to international flights via UK is possible. There again you could leave the boat in Spain or Portugal and fly out of the eu for spell.

U.K. was never in Schengen and likewise Ireland is in the EU but not in Schengen, the U.K. never left Schengen cause it was never in it !!

[goboatingnow]

You could do Halifax -> Azores-> Ireland. Then run down to the canaries.

But I would ask why spend time in the Azores if you want to maximise time in the canaries. 1week in the Azores then head to the canaries.

The other issue is getting from Ireland /U.K. south to the canaries by mid late August. I’d always try to be south of Cap S’Vincent by end of Aug. I’ve run in very nasty late summer storms in Aug, South of Ireland. In my view after July things go down hill

The other thing is sail to Portugal. ( say Lagos ) Leave the boat fly home , then come back and sail south to the canaries. This avoids a nasty Northern Europe trip south.

[JordanH]

Hi folks,


To answer questions without getting into too many details...
Q1. Why do you need to go after July 1?
A1. Constrained by work commitments. It will be on a sabbatical year, my wife will be required to work until the end of June. She will have July 1 - August 31 (14-months) available.



@Cpn_Bill ... well, we are trying to reduce those risks by leaving as early as possible. And that's exactly why I have to ask this question. We'd like to leave as soon as we can, but the spanner in the works is Schengen. We can only stay where we want to be for 90 days, not 4-5 months. I hope we are not too close to hurricane season, and even so, I hope to be north of whatever is brewing.... fingers crossed.


Q2. Why spend time in Azores if we want to spend our time in the Canaries?
A2. I've never been to the Azores, and it would be a shame to sail that far and miss it. A week or two to rest from a long trip should be sufficient but I prefer to spend some time and get to know a place... who knows, I may never be back that way again?


Q3. Why not go to Ireland or the UK?
A3. I would love to do that. We had considered that a significant trek "out of our way" and wasn't sure if that's really do-able for the amount of time we have. 2,700nm is a significant amount of sea-time... that essentially chews up the month and doesn't allow us to have more time in the Canaries or a lot of time in the UK.


Don't get me wrong, I could spend an entire year trekking around the UK and would love it. In fact, of the possible itineraries we've been discussing for the trip would be to the north; UK and maybe points east (sailing into Lofoten is on my bucket list). However, Plan A is to sail to points south. (Plan B was to spend 6 months in the Sea of Cortez, Plan C was Ireland, UK (Scottish Hebrides is on my bucket list too) etc.

The trip, as it is, will be a monumental effort to make it happen as it is. So I am trying to keep it as simple as possible.


(and before someone asks, the same reasoning is also why we excluded the Med from our itinerary)


Another issue with the UK plan, is that it would mean that we will be sailing south from the UK to Canaries in what... October? That is kinda not nice for Biscane, Portuguese coast and so-on. I hear that's rather rough...


.... I guess I better start researching cruising in Morocco...?

[JordanH]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The other thing is sail to Portugal. ( say Lagos ) Leave the boat fly home , then come back and sail south to the canaries. This avoids a nasty Northern Europe trip south.

Although, yes, this could be done... it rather defeats the purpose of a sabbatical year to go sailing. If we take the time away from work, to sail and leave the boat in Portugal, then fly back home... we're still at home, we might as well be working. The idea is to spend the year sailing so we won't have the luxury of taking 180 days away from the boat to fly home.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

U.K. was never in Schengen and likewise Ireland is in the EU but not in Schengen, the U.K. never left Schengen cause it was never in it !!

Yes, you are correct, my mistake.

In the context of the OP's question the result is unchanged.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by JordanH

Although, yes, this could be done... it rather defeats the purpose of a sabbatical year to go sailing. If we take the time away from work, to sail and leave the boat in Portugal, then fly back home... we're still at home, we might as well be working. The idea is to spend the year sailing so we won't have the luxury of taking 180 days away from the boat to fly home.

You don't need to be away for 180 days. The most you need to be out of Schengen is 90 days. Plug your days in one of the Schengen calculators and see what it says.

[JordanH]

Originally Posted by Anders

You don't need to be away for 180 days. The most you need to be out of Schengen is 90 days. Plug your days in one of the Schengen calculators and see what it says.

I do understand what you are suggesting, but the math doesn't work out for my case. Leaving Canada in July, and departing Canaries in December, I don't see how the math works out to achieve more than 90 days in the Canaries + time in the Azores. Yes, the boat could have a wonderful vacation, but I personally would be in a different place.


My challenge is to both hit my time table for weather AND spend as much time as we can with our friends who live in the Canaries.


Ah well, I've been reading a lot about it and don't see a way we can work around the Schengen 90-days so we'll find an alternative. Maybe Morocco??

[SweareDeep]

This website explains how a stay in Schengen-land can be extended beyond 90 days in a single Schengen country if that country has a bilateral agreement with your country of citizenship. Canada has a bilateral agreement with Spain.

[JordanH]

Originally Posted by SweareDeep

This website explains how a stay in Schengen-land can be extended beyond 90 days in a single Schengen country if that country has a bilateral agreement with your country of citizenship. Canada has a bilateral agreement with Spain.

Thanks! That's awesome. ok, I had looked up other visa types for spain and found this site that says only the ETIAS visa waiver was possible. I didn't see anything based on the bilateral agreements.


https://www.spainvisa.eu/visa-types/tourist-visa/


But if I understand what is on the site you posted, it would work like this...


I arrive in Azores and stay without a visa; Let's call it 30 days.
I then sail into the Canaries and I spend another 60 days. On/near the last day, I go to deal with the bureaucracy and apply for permission to stay for another 90 days. Assuming they accept it, I'm good. If not, we have to depart.


Excellent, you just made my day. That will work.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JordanH

Thanks! That's awesome. ok, I had looked up other visa types for spain and found this site that says only the ETIAS visa waiver was possible. I didn't see anything based on the bilateral agreements.


https://www.spainvisa.eu/visa-types/tourist-visa/


But if I understand what is on the site you posted, it would work like this...


I arrive in Azores and stay without a visa; Let's call it 30 days.
I then sail into the Canaries and I spend another 60 days. On/near the last day, I go to deal with the bureaucracy and apply for permission to stay for another 90 days. Assuming they accept it, I'm good. If not, we have to depart.


Excellent, you just made my day. That will work.

Eh there are only a number of categories where you can acquire a longer stay visa. You can’t just “ rock “ up and look for an extension the common visas are education visa resident, visa , investment style visa and retirement visas.

You need to be aware in advance what category you will apply for. There isn’t a simple extension to the Schengen visa waiver scheme which is how you will arrive in Spain