Radar or no radar?

[singlespeed]

Radar is really helpful for tracking and avoiding squalls and thunderstorms while underway. Especially at night and on island passages where they can change direction rather dramatically.

While AIS is required on larger vessels, it may not be activated. Crossing west of St. Martin one evening, we observed a cruise ship departing the harbor, but not showing on the AIS receiver. A VHF call to the vessel to the magically resulted in their AIS appearing on the receiver. Most likely simply forgotten in the departure procedure from a busy crowded harbor. In the Bahamas we ran across a number of vessels that should of had AIS moving about at night. Some undoubtedly could not afford the units others may be smugglers, given no visible running lights. We have rarely encountered navel or coastal patrol vessels emitting an AIS signal.

[Mr O]

Radar.

Last year the old radar and plotter finally packed it in, but a new AIS and plotter with overlay made it possible to safely navigate thru thick fog in Rosario Straits near Anacortes, WA last summer. As others have mentioned, small boats and fishing boats usually do not run AIS, so there is a danger there. We could hear them since we were sailing, but they couldn't hear us. Last spring a new HD radar was installed which works way better than the old one and uses very little power. Instant on, nice overlay on plotter. It can see smaller targets and at a closer range.

Your installation is a bit of a challenge. If you have a gimbaled mount on the mast, it would make sense to put it there and not on the arch shading the solar. Some put it on the back stay.

Good luck & safe sailing

[Franziska]

I can understand the fishing boats which do not send out their position to some extent.

Still I'd be surprised if they do not have an AIS receiver and would not radio a vessel visible by AIS or radar when its approaching them too close.

It's in their interest as well as yours not to hit each other.
Especially if legally they are required to send out an AIS position but choose not to.

[RMatichak]

Originally Posted by s/v Moondancer

While generally, AIS is more valuable than Radar in foggy Canadian waters we relied heavily on our radar. I would not want to be on the St Lawrence, in fog, without radar

Totally agree. I’m in Tadoussac for the summer. Here’s a pict of fog that lasted 3 days! The more you gave to work with, the better.

[waterman46]

myThere will be hundreds of small boats, and some not so small, without AIS that you will see on radar at night and in fog. And we have found several large cargo vessels and navy ships moving at speed, without their functioning AIS.

If you can afford it, get radar. IMHO you should have kept the " obsolete" radar if you did not want to buy a new one.

If I was to have to choose between AIS and radar, I would always choose radar. With radar I have avoided collisions with small fishing boats many times.

[skipmac]

I have both. If I HAD to choose one or the other I would choose radar for the following reasons, most of which have been mentioned.


1. Lots of boats, especially commercial fishing boats, do not have or use AIS. Even the ones that do often have the whole crew on deck working nets or lines with the boat on AP. While they aren't exactly tanker sized a collision with a 60-70' steel fishing trawler could definitely ruin your day.


2. You can see not only all the other boats but buoys, channel markers, etc.


3. You can get a position from radar, exactly how far off shore, where in the channel or bearing to dangers.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by gauvins

Opinions?

AIS & radar are different things doing different jobs, can't really compare them.... though everyone still does

[toddster8]

I see no reason that a cruising boat shouldn’t have both, since the costs continue to moderate. Especially if you look for bargains in previous-year’s models.

FWIW, I’ve just upgraded from an old Furuno magnetron radar to a (refurbished) digital “Quantum” unit, with a couple of slightly obsolete head units scored from eBay. The difference is amazing. It clearly shows craft of all sizes, including jet skis, RIBs and kids sailing dinghies, and uses half the power.

And just yesterday, I passed a tug with two barges that emitted no AIS signal. Perhaps half of the commercial fishing vessels that I encounter emit AIS. Just a guess, but I suspect they are assuming a “tribal” exemption from regulation.

[Sandydog]

I just got back from the St. Lawrence. There were so many times the fog was so thick you could cut it with a knife. Get radar.

[Ardbeg]

While I believe it is required by all commercial vessels, I have seen fishing boats, ferries and Coast Guard boats in the Gulf of St Lawrence without AIS turned on. While I have radar, I tend to wait out the fog as an added safety precaution. When at home on Lake Ontario, I seldom use radar and rely on AIS.

[deblen]

Radar can show you ALL VESSELS & DANGERS around you.


AIS shows you ONLY the VESSELS that are transmitting an AIS signal.
Of course,AIS transmits the name,size,etc. of those vessels, which is handy, if you want to curse at a particular ship)



I can't imagine operating in fog unnecessarily without radar. AIS will not replace radar.


IMHO / Len

[snippet]

Why would you choose to leave your glasses at home? There’s no substitute.

[Lepke]

When I was a commercial fisherman, old timers (pre-radar) told me it's mainly a time saver. In the North Pacific we got a lot of fog, 1/4 mile visibility. Radar of the time would pick out ships and big boats, but not all boats. So you ran slower, even with radar.

At that time there was no commercial gps that was affordable or electronic plotters, so radar was used to pick up headlands and buoys on the way in. So a time saver then. Most navigation was Loran. I had a Loran A receiver out of a WWII bomber.
Now with gps, a plotter, you know where you're at and the direction to your destination. AIS will give you the big things around you. A tug with a tow would be my big concern.

[Adelie]

I don’t know where you draw the line on affordability but Furuno 1623’s are $1300 currently.

[jmschmidt]

The large vessels of non-IMO nations (if there are any) would not be allowed in the territorial water of IMO nations. They could, however operate on the high-seas.

Two sources of information (radar & AIS) are always better that one.