Radar or no radar?

[boatman61]

Funny, I called up a cargo vessel off Ushant, it was around midnight, nav lights on and radar reflector up.
When he came on the VHF I reported I was maybe 2 to 3nm ahead on his bow and had he seen me on his radar..
He replied he could not see me and asked my position.
I gave him this but I still did not show up.. finally when around half a mile off he said a lookout had spotted my lights.. it was blowing F6, wind against tide and the seas were maybe 3 metres with some breakers..
So you see there are surprises out there..
Oh.. and he thought I was nuts being out there on a 22ftr.

[markpierce]

Boatman, you need more/better radar reflectors or a steel boat.

[boatman61]

A 3 to 4 metre sea will make even a steel boat hard to spot in the clutter.
My last boat was a 39ft steel Van de Stadt.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by boatman61

A 3 to 4 metre sea will make even a steel boat hard to spot in the clutter.
My last boat was a 39ft steel Van de Stadt.

Don't sailboats have masts towering over their hulls capable of displaying radar reflectors?

[boatman61]

Oh.. you noticed that as you went past on a cruise ship huh..

[markpierce]

Yes, having crewed and captained for years on sailboats.

[CarlF]

I have radar but could easily get by without it. I just spent six weeks in Maine and turned it on twice during the trip.

I’ve cruised Maine fogs for 40 years. 10 of those without radar. Before chartplotters, radar helped a lot - it was the best way to not hit the land and find buoys. Using it to avoid hitting another boat was never a big need. These are uncrowded waters and most boats are lobsterboat’s with unmuffled engines you can hear miles away.

Chartplotters took away about 80% of the times I used radar. AIS takes away another 15%. Is it worth $3000 for the few times it really helps today?

Certainly a more difficult choice than 30 years ago

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Yes, having crewed and captained for years on sailboats.

The bloke in the middle is looking for topless chicks on the beach........

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by boatman61

A 3 to 4 metre sea will make even a steel boat hard to spot in the clutter.
My last boat was a 39ft steel Van de Stadt.

I've seen a loaded 10,000dwt tanker disappear into the sea clutter at 3 mile range in a heavy swell.....
(that was on the day job.... not my wee ship)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Yes, having crewed and captained for years on sailboats.

Ahh.!!!
It must have been someone else who said the only way they go offshore is on Cruise ships..
Could have sworn it was you..

If thats the bridgedeck of a sailboat it is definitely out of the ordinary.. 200+ft.???
3 with Bino's.. guess they dont trust their radar.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by CarlF

Chartplotters took away about 80% of the times I used radar. AIS takes away another 15%.

How do you know when you are in the 80% "not needed" zone? Chart plotters also give depth readings that are probably accurate 95% of the time - time to reconsider a depth sounder? Hyperbole aside, this comes down to (1) when someone 'came of age' on the water, and (2) the waters they cruise. Cruising along WA/OR/CA Pacific coast, for example, often involves multi-day passages. I'd be hard-pressed to leave port without an operational radar.

[contrail]

Look, I can drive my car without glasses, even though I am required to wear them. I have never had an accident on those extremely rare occasions I have forgotten them. But I would be absolutely nuts to make the argument that I am fine, or as good, driving without glasses and all of this reminds me of that. I learned (and practiced, constantly) to use radar well before plotters and AIS. I still practices, constantly, even more so if the particular radar is new to me. It has helped me navigate, avoid collisions, avoid bad weather, maintain an anchor watch, you name it. When I am off watch, I leave the radar on, with it's alarms, and guess what? It's often the better watchstander than the human (which is why I always laugh at those who think that singlehanders depending on radar are irresponsible). The radar doesn't get careless, any more so than the autopilot. It is perfect? No. Does it always see everything? No, athough the better the user, the closer it comes. But, radar is very, very good. If you can't afford it, then use your other tools, just as you would if you can't afford an autopilot, or wind intruments, or a knotmeter, or even VHF or a depthsounder, or glasses, windshield wipers or a spare tire on your car. But, if you can, and you sail in other than perfect conditions........then, to me, it's a no-brainer.

[contrail]

Originally Posted by waterman46

You are correct in recommending radar, but sorry your mounting locations w.r.t. stays won't work. Triatic stay goes to very top of the mizzen, so radar must be mounted below that point. A radar will interfere with the jib on a fractional rig unless radar is mounted either above the forestay or somewhat below it allowing clearance for the jib to set correctly. Jib halyard pulley or sheave is nearly in line with the forestay, so no room there.

Actually, many folks have their radar mounted TOO high. Yes, it extends the range, but it greatly increases the diameter of the circle around the vessel, within which it does not see, due to the vertical angle of the beam. 10 to 25 feet off the water is probably the sweet spot. The top of the mast is way too high.