Route from Queensland (AUS) to Panama

[Rucksta]

Originally Posted by picklesandjesse

I see you have a Farr 43. Quick boat. I owned Snake Oil for awhile was a Farr 43. Was just sold again in Lake Macquarie. We were doing 10kts in a northerly from Galverston heading east with just the storm jib up about 12 years ago. Had 9ft draft at one time, I chainsawed the tip off the keel after consulting a yacht designer and now has 7ft 6.

Hi P&J

I looked at Snake Oil and Wild Oats before settling on Drakes Prayer.
I liked DPs original hull, deck and rig configuration.

Was SOs rig change and internal fit out done on your watch?

Valdivia passage was in a mid 70s pintail mast head 2 tonner with modified hull form and appendages to make it rate IMS which was the thing at the time.

[picklesandjesse]

That was the previous owner who was a Florida shipwright. He bought it from S and S in New York. Had been donated with no rig. He got injured on board in mid Pacific and sailed back to Annapolis where it was later moved to Kemah TX and sold by lien holder. Nasty sale for him as he lost everything. We got caught in the GFC and lost too. Next owner who we financed lost as well. I think the total losses for 3 owners at that period of 7 years was about $500,000. I would have been $100,000 better off if I had sunk it after paying $55,000 for it!!!
Going to be some cheap boats that people can lose more money on very soon.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

4900 is about right .
A little more or less depending on how far south you go.

A sustained 5kt lift SOG over Boat speed was the norm.
More at times.

Humboldt current is as good once you start your Northing.
I picked it up at 50S and 750 nm off shore.

Southern Ocean lived up to expectations with wind strength (40+true) and wave hight (5-7mt).
What surprised me was the well ordered sea state and consistent wind conditions.

No afternoon thunder storms or squalls. No confused sloppy seas coming from 3 directions, no diurnal wind change and no flying fish on deck in the morning.

Didn't deploy a drogue or shorten sail beyond second reef and #3 genoa.
My thinking was it would be less comfortable going slow.

Have had a scarier time in 30 kts and waves half the size off the Frazer Coast.

Even if you double the passage time to 36 days its got to be better than slugging it out along the short route through the ITCZ.

I think you meant 38 days in your original message! 4900/38 = a tad over 5 knots.

You were not in the Southern Ocean by any definition... South of the convergence or south of 60 is the southern ocean.

Running along 50 South or so seems to be the go east of the Chatham. Otherwise play further north in lighter but more variable winds.

[Dsanduril]

I think Rucksta is saying that SOG was 5 knots greater than boat speed through the water. i.e. a 5 knot surface current. For 3 weeks. Consistently.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Moo

I think you meant 38 days in your original message! 4900/38 = a tad over 5 knots.

You were not in the Southern Ocean by any definition... South of the convergence or south of 60 is the southern ocean.

Running along 50 South or so seems to be the go east of the Chatham. Otherwise play further north in lighter but more variable winds.

Wow that’s some Antarctic definition. The direct route from Auckland would take you to about 53S at the lowest point, which I’d definitely call Southern Ocean. My Admiralty Chart prints the text “southern ocean” at around 49S, with mentions of the southern ocean current displayed up to about 46S.

I don’t know what the official definition is, but I’m not going to be the one telling Robin Knox-Johnston he’s never been to the Southern Ocean...

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

I think Rucksta is saying that SOG was 5 knots greater than boat speed through the water. i.e. a 5 knot surface current. For 3 weeks. Consistently.

I know where the humbolt current is.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Wow that’s some Antarctic definition. The direct route from Auckland would take you to about 53S at the lowest point, which I’d definitely call Southern Ocean. My Admiralty Chart prints the text “southern ocean” at around 49S, with mentions of the southern ocean current displayed up to about 46S.

I don’t know what the official definition is, but I’m not going to be the one telling Robin Knox-Johnston he’s never been to the Southern Ocean...

It's not an antarctic definition those two are the accepted definitions of the Southern Ocean. Like it or lump it that's it. I've been there a lot, I know where it is.

I don't RKJ would argue with it. Never has when I've seen him in that area.

[KC375]

Originally Posted by Tillsbury

Wow that’s some Antarctic definition. The direct route from Auckland would take you to about 53S at the lowest point, which I’d definitely call Southern Ocean. My Admiralty Chart prints the text “southern ocean” at around 49S, with mentions of the southern ocean current displayed up to about 46S.

I don’t know what the official definition is, but I’m not going to be the one telling Robin Knox-Johnston he’s never been to the Southern Ocean...

There does seem to be a range of definitions by authoritative sources.
International Hydrographic Organization by plurality (50%) chose 60 degrees but half the members preferred another demarcation.
The CIA factbook and Wikipedia refers to 60%.
The Australian government refers to position of the “Subtropical Front varies with longitude, it lies roughly along 40°S”
So maybe less than fully settled and not worth getting exorcised about.

[Moo]

Originally Posted by KC375

There does seem to be a range of definitions by authoritative sources.
International Hydrographic Organization by plurality (50%) chose 60 degrees but half the members preferred another demarcation.
The CIA factbook and Wikipedia refers to 60%.
The Australian government refers to position of the “Subtropical Front varies with longitude, it lies roughly along 40°S”
So maybe less than fully settled and not worth getting exorcised about.

The Australians are the odd ones out; for geopolitical reasons. They did once try to claim everything south of Australia was Southern Ocean and therfore they could claim a lump of Antarctica.

Being born at 52 South.. I in no way consider myself born in the Southern Ocean, and I doubt that people born in London would consider their waters the northern ocean!

The Antarctic convergence is in my opinion, and most of the scientific community uses it, the sensible definition. You can see it and feel it, even smell it, when you cross it.

[ozsailer]

HI Ann, you dont state when you are consdering your journey. In the current climate I doubt that you will be going anywhere in the next year, I know it sounds extreme but our current chief medical officer here in OZ was on the radio this mornning advising people not to lock in any overseas travel for at least a year. Thats here in Australia, what are the possible issues you may face overseas. Hate to bring this to your attention but I believe it to be quite relevant to your plans.



Greg H
Lagoon 440
Oz

[Rucksta]

Moo

No typo on the days duration.

Route was west of Chatham Is.

63 was my most southerly declination.

Cheers

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Moo

No typo on the days duration.

Route was west of Chatham Is.

63 was my most southerly declination.

Cheers

What vessel?

5knots lift is a lot more than I've ever seen, 2 is more typical. Or do you mean in the Humbolt?

Sure 63S, gets you into the Southern Ocean Did you cross the convergence? Just curious what you experienced when you did?

Obviously choosing to go great circle

[Rucksta]

Moo.

Valdivia passage was in a mid 70s IOR pintail mast head 2 tonner with modified hull form and appendages to make it rate IMS which was the thing at the time. Easily capable of producing 12kts boat speed in trade wind reaching conditions and achieving 10 close-hauled on partially smooth water.

Lift was current and waves.
Humbolt was mainly current.

I was chuffed to pick up a 5kt lift but it did not surprise me.
I've had 4kts on the East Australia Current and 2+ along the Kermadec Ridge.
Neither are the magnitude of the circum-polar current.

Convergence zone was not remarkable except was not pronounced as expected.
More of a gradual cooling as the wind swung to the west as the wave train set in on the way south.

Passage in late Summer
Ice drifted up to low 50s and reported clear to the 70s.
Barometer 950s below 60S hovering around 1000 for most of the trip.
Wind steady 40 kts + a bit.
Remarkable lack of gusting.

South & East no fog or ice experienced
Sea temperature approx 4C .
Drop in ocean temperature with choppier water and interrupted swell pattern the day after the gybe onto port tack - some fog.
Air was dry, temperature was variable but never felt cold with basic layering and staying dry.

As this was my one and only foray into southern waters I had little reference as to "normal" conditions other than literature both fact and fiction (no UTube in the 20th century)

What should I have experienced or expected?
How would you shape an easterly summer passage from NZ or southern Australia?
What are the advantages of staying north or choosing other than a circle route?
How long would you expect a typical passage to take? (compare performance hull and full keel)

I may be tempted to do this again
Based on your experience, what advice would you offer?

[Moo]

Originally Posted by Rucksta

Moo.

Valdivia passage was in a mid 70s IOR pintail mast head 2 tonner with modified hull form and appendages to make it rate IMS which was the thing at the time. Easily capable of producing 12kts boat speed in trade wind reaching conditions and achieving 10 close-hauled on partially smooth water.

Lift was current and waves.
Humbolt was mainly current.

I was chuffed to pick up a 5kt lift but it did not surprise me.
I've had 4kts on the East Australia Current and 2+ along the Kermadec Ridge.
Neither are the magnitude of the circum-polar current.

Convergence zone was not remarkable except was not pronounced as expected.
More of a gradual cooling as the wind swung to the west as the wave train set in on the way south.

Passage in late Summer
Ice drifted up to low 50s and reported clear to the 70s.
Barometer 950s below 60S hovering around 1000 for most of the trip.
Wind steady 40 kts + a bit.
Remarkable lack of gusting.

South & East no fog or ice experienced
Sea temperature approx 4C .
Drop in ocean temperature with choppier water and interrupted swell pattern the day after the gybe onto port tack - some fog.
Air was dry, temperature was variable but never felt cold with basic layering and staying dry.

As this was my one and only foray into southern waters I had little reference as to "normal" conditions other than literature both fact and fiction (no UTube in the 20th century)

What should I have experienced or expected?
How would you shape an easterly summer passage from NZ or southern Australia?
What are the advantages of staying north or choosing other than a circle route?
How long would you expect a typical passage to take? (compare performance hull and full keel)

I may be tempted to do this again
Based on your experience, what advice would you offer?

Interesting .. Not sure if you are Trolling me or not.

I take issue with your statement regarding the magnitude of the circumpolar current. It rarely hits 2 knots

See attached image a RTOFS screenshot from today. Fairly normal and average. Scale of shading set for 0' to 3' and it doesn't max out except in the EAC at over 4'.

995 to 1000 on the bar is what I would expect in those latitudes as you say dipping below 970 getting down to 60 ish.

Lack of gusting is normal. Just blows steady and strong which means you can set up for it and then just ride it.

The convergence can be quite a bump sometimes if there is not much mixing with fog and such. I have seen the temp go from around 10 C to 1.5C very suddenly once, but normally more gradual. Normally <2 C below the convergence (but as I said depends on what is happen with both currents and local Wx).

As for taking a Lagoon to Valdivia.. I'd rather somebody else did it But I reckon I would take the cruisey route straight across heading well south of the Australs. Watching the jetstreams and forecasts to meander north and south to catch the comfy breeze. What ever I was driving on that route I'd probably do something similar. I have never taken a "performance" boat across an ocean and now at my age no real desire to My best run is probably Punta del Este to Stanley in 5 days dead

Otherwise without bothering with detailed planning dropping down to 50 or so and running along should give breeze around 30 i.e. a bit less than you had; but more variable so perhaps not such a stable ride. Less risk of hitting a big white island - and given that a couple of big ones are about to break free of the sea ice and start breaking up that is once again a strong possibility. Hasn't been much ice around since the early 2000s after the last major shelf ruptures.

You will find the river up to Valdiva a bit different now. A couple of shakes have moved things around a bit. Don't use your old charts!

Cheers

[El Pinguino]

Last time we crossed we we were sailing in company (??... they sailed about 4 days ahead of us ) with a 45 foot Ovni which should have been the faster boat... crossing times were within hours of each other. The difference was that they didn't go south of 35º ...our limiting lat was about 45º ... the skipper said he had crossed this ocean years ago in some race or other (BOC, Volvo, dunno) and no way was he going down there again....
They had a weather rooter in Perth advising them.... they copped lots of easterlies..
We rode the 1020 isobar.. on both crossings - sailed very conservatively - averaged a flat 5 knots...
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...le-161990.html

Up the west coast of south america?

You can get northerlies between Chacao and Valpo depending on season... typically around Isla Mocha.... but other than that a bit of a dream run north... can get a bit fresh offshore from Coquimbo where the isobars get squeezed between the Andes and the high and then get reinforced by the afternoon sea breeze. Light conditions northwest of Antofagasta into Peruvian waters where it pays to stay well offshore to avoid the local fishermen but inside their 200 mile limit.... to avoid the asian plunderers...
Observations based on a Montt-Antofagasta-Iquique-Anto-Papeete trip, a Montt - Vina del Mar delivery and last year a Montt - Valdivia - Anto- Ecuador run.... plus speaking to others who have done it...