Sailing vessel and RORO ship on collision courses - what do you think of the outcome?

[Walkabout4242]

Right of way in reality.... is.
Give way to the bigger ship
Common sense.
Irreverent what the rules say.

[edexter]

Here in the Chesapeake we get to play with lots of commercial traffic, and a lot of the time the big boys (and Baltimore can handle the really big post-Panamax ships) are constrained by the need to stay in the 50’ channel. This is true well outside the harbor, and that makes them the carry-on vessel. Besides, in our little boat I don’t bother to argue about right of way since their large wakes can be as hazardous as their bow, in the case mentioned I would have altered course a few degrees to pass well behind them once I first determined their course and speed. As the Colregs and several posters make clear, if there is a collision both captains are at fault.

[4runner]

Any recreational skipper that doesn’t alter course for commercial shipping traffic needs to significantly re-evaluate their understanding of piloting and seamanship.

There should not have even been a need for a radio exchange.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Walkabout4242

Right of way in reality.... is.
Give way to the bigger ship
Common sense.
Irreverent what the rules say.

Tell yourself that.
Then you don't have to learn those pesky rules
They're so hard
Ignorance is bliss.

[hpaabor]

Don't like putting my life in other people's hands. That goes more than double for freighters and transport trucks. I will indicate my intention - which is always to get out of their way - as early as I can - by action. My assumption learned many decades ago from crossing ferries in Toronto Bay is that they get bonus points if they hit you. Typically they can't read, don't care, and don't even speak your language.

[argonauta1]

You did the right thing but a little late. No point in arguing. Expected clear conditions visibility at sea is about 9NM (earth curvature) I usually adjust course to miss at about that distance. Let it get too close and you as the slower vessel erode maneuvering time. Do it early that way about 10 to 20 degree heading adjustment does it. Incidentally, this is survivor speak!

[RoseLoper48]

The right of way rules do not specify that a sailboat has right of way over a power boat. It does say that the least maneuverable boat has the right of way. In this case you had early opportunity to alter course to avoid a collision. The first right of way rule says to avoid collision.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by 4runner

Any recreational skipper that doesn’t alter course for commercial shipping traffic needs to significantly re-evaluate their understanding of piloting and seamanship.

Anyone who says stuff like this should significantly re-evaluate their choice to go out on the water.
Nevermind.
Don't bother learning the colregs.
They're too hard.

[Lodesman]

On this page 3 people have used the term "right of way". Stu's head is going to explode

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by RoseLoper48

The first right of way rule says to avoid collision.

Really? Where do you find these "right of way" rules?

[Sailor_Jeff]

I may not have understood. And I am in experienced. But I think out there ship approaching from the starboard had right of way for several reasons.

One, it's tonnage meant it was less maneuverable, therefore has right if way..
Two, it was coming from the right, it has the right if way.
Three, you saw it first. A captain is suppose to avoid collisions at all costs, so, the small craft should give way for safety.

I look forward to reading the answers.

[Richbayle]

When I was learning to sail at the tender age of 11, I was taught a little rhyme :
"Here lies the body of Harold Day, who insisted upon his right of way"
Maybe more of us should recite that when confronted by a large Roro or Greek ferry⛴️Having sailed in the Greek Islands, I'm happy to alter course way before the AIS says "we're doomed"
Same thing out here in the Caribbean. 🌴

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Sailor_Jeff

I may not have understood. And I am in experienced. But I think out there ship approaching from the starboard had right of way for several reasons.

One, it's tonnage meant it was less maneuverable, therefore has right if way..
Two, it was coming from the right, it has the right if way.
Three, you saw it first. A captain is suppose to avoid collisions at all costs, so, the small craft should give way for safety.

I look forward to reading the answers.

One: Unless the ship was in a channel that it couldn't operate outside of, or a traffic lane, or claiming restricted maneuverability, it's just a power driven vessel according to the rules, no different than a 40 foot Sea Ray.

Two: That would be correct if both vessels were of equal status. But a sailboat under sail is stand on when a powerboat is crossing regardless of which side they're crossing from.

Three: There are 3 points in time where the stand on vessel can or should maneuver. The first would be to correct long before the other vessel would be thinking about maneuvering for you (which is typically much further than 5nm in open water). The second is when it's clear that the other vessel is not maneuvering as expected (but before you run out of time / space to make an effective maneuver and give plenty of space). The third is if the 2 vessels have communicated and agreed on a non-standard arrangement for whatever reason.

[stefnieman]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Yesterday we were broad reaching under gennaker and full main (145 TWA on starboard), heading towards our berth from a distant island. About 6 miles short of our destination we had a mid-sized RORO ship (180m long, roll on roll off car carrier) approaching from our windward (starboard) bow on a course that would cross ours at 90 degrees and with a 0.0nm closest point of approach (CPA) according to our AIS. Our boat speeds were roughly equal - 9.5kn for the ship and 9kn for us. Both of us were clearly visible and transmitting information over AIS, us class B and identified as sailing vessel and the RORO class A and commercial vessel.

We were outside of the harbour limits, there was no traffic separation scheme nor channel, and there was clear water all around with no obstructions within 3 miles.

We started watching the ship at about 5 miles distance from us. We determined that we were stand on as a sailing vessel and the RORO give way as a power vessel. The distance between us kept reducing with very little change in relative bearing, with the RORO just slightly bow forward of us. Note that our AIS continued to show 0.0 CPA.

At about 0.5nm separation, with no evident change of course or speed by the RORO, I called them on VHF 16 using their name (from AIS) and identifying ourselves as the sailboat on their port bow and our boat name. I asked what were their intentions for the crossing. A very relaxed voice replied that they were crossing our bow. I replied that we were currently on a collision course near their midpoint and that we would have to turn to starboard to take their stern. The relaxed voice came back and said to carry on, out.

We hardened up about 30 degrees and crossed their wake about 100 metres astern of them, then bore off back to our original course. Had we kept our original course and speed we would have hit them.

WTF?

Why you waited till 0,5 miles distance. Why not call them sooner to ask them what there intentions are?
Just wandering, maybe I missed something.

Fair winds,

Steven

[smokey73]

Respectfully consider the following from the perspective of the large vessel (when I say large vessel I mean a commercial ship like a tanker, RORO, etc, not a large pleasure boat):

1. You are on a sailboat, sailing. Therefore your speed and thus the closing situation is highly dependent on the wind, possibly current and your ability to hold a course if steering manually. The large vessel doesn't know any of this and frankly you don't know what is going to change in that equation in the next half hour let alone the next few minutes.

2. Suppose the large vessel changes course to fall behind you and the wind subsides and you slow down or conversely he slows down and you slow down too, through no fault of your own. As you can see, the large vessel will be "chasing" the course/speed to avoid you.

3. Should you choose to alter a few degrees at a distance of 5 miles to avoid the collision, the large vessel should notice that on the AIS a long way off, if they are paying attention. If you choose to hold course till you get closer then alter a fairly large amount to make your intentions know and then come back enough to pass safely behind the large vessel he will know you intentions by your actions and you can communicate to let him know on VHF to be sure.

4. Would you really be foolish enough to cross the path of a large vessel who is at high speed just to press the issue of who is the stand on vessel (no such thing as right of way in COLREGS). My impression is that his steel trumps your fiberglass.

Good seamanship and prudence dictate taking early and definitive action to avoid collision based on an understanding of the situation, the variables involved (wind and much more variable speed on a boat that depends on wind for speed) and simply good judgement.

Your call of course but try to put yourself in their position for a moment.