Sailing without AIS or Radar

[Montslr]

My old boat had an AIS transceiver and receiver led to the chart plotter. I felt comfortable sailing anywhere at anytime of the day. My new boat does not have a single sailing instrument. If I am sailing along the coast of California and in San Francisco Bay for most of the time, is it better to have radar or an AIS transceiver. I found a rechargeable AIS transceiver that gives my position every 3 minutes. I am also considering a Foruno Wireless radar. My budget only allows me to buy one of the two. I heard that the radar does not have the ability see small objects floating in the water like crab pot buoys and logs. It also sounds like the radar will not do a good job of telling you if something is on a collision course with you.

Any opinions you might have will be helpful.

Thank you!

[Kenomac]

You’re in California and will need to be able to deal with fog, go with radar and learn to use it. AIS won’t identify rocks or help you get to a safe location in the fog, radar will.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Montslr

...... It also sounds like the radar will not do a good job of telling you if something is on a collision course with you.

Any opinions you might have will be helpful.

Thank you!

Refer #2....

Establishing risk of collision with radar? Pretty simple.... esp if you have 'target tails'.... just watch the relative bearing while you maintain a steady course...... no change or very little change in bearing... risk of collision exists....

[jmh2002]

Hi there, some things do need answering in your post.

First, well, we all sailed without AIS or Radar way back when, so don't fixate on it. But yes of course any additional aids to navigation can be useful.

It's true that radar will not "see small objects floating in the water like crab pot buoys and logs" unless the weather is very calm, in which case you can see them yourself.

Unfortunately there isn't really a very good solution for crab pot buoy type objects, except for a sharp lookout, and if sailing regularly in these areas perhaps even a boat design with less probability of snagging such things. I guess your Pacific Seacraft Flicka 20 fits this description already.

"It also sounds like the radar will not do a good job of telling you if something is on a collision course with you. " This is incorrect.

Radar is in fact one of the best tools available for collision avoidance and this is mostly what it is used for, whilst also being able to assist with navigation too.

However Radar does require a trained and skilled operator to be able to interpret the information correctly. I would suggest a training course if you are not very familiar.

"My new boat does not have a single sailing instrument"

Open Plotter Sailing with free hardware | Sailoog might be an interesting alternative option if you want to setup the whole boat and are prepared to learn and do some work yourself.

Hope this helps

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Montslr

If I am sailing along the coast of California and in San Francisco Bay for most of the time, is it better to have radar or an AIS transceiver. I found a rechargeable AIS transceiver that gives my position every 3 minutes. I am also considering a Foruno Wireless radar. My budget only allows me to buy one of the two.

I heard that the radar does not have the ability see small objects floating in the water like crab pot buoys and logs.

It also sounds like the radar will not do a good job of telling you if something is on a collision course with you.

Radar first. AIS nice to have, later some time.

A radar MAY NOT see small floating objects... but ours usually DOES. And AIS wouldn't see any of that, nor any other boat not equipped with an AIS transmitter.

Radar WILL help you determine if you're on a collision course with another vessel. An AIS will tell you that information only relative to another boat with an AIS transmitter.

There's some learning involved, to get the most out of radar.

Around here, maybe 5% of vessels we see have an AIS transmitter.

-Chris

[transmitterdan]

OpenCPN works with a few different radar antennas. You may be able to save a lot of $$ buying just the radar antenna without a display and then using OpenCPN as the display device. A cheap Windows 10 computer is all you need. You can also use Linux or Mac but Windows is the most painless way.

The new radar antennas output their data via Ethernet which connects easily to just about any computer with an Ethernet jack.

You can also get AIS receivers for OpenCPN for <$100 but I recommend getting radar working first.

Visit the OpenCPN forum here on CF and ask for advice on how to set up radar before you go out and buy anything. But I’ll bet you can save enough money so you could have radar, chart plotter and AIS transceiver on your budget.

[Kivalo]

AIS is great but as others have said, RADAR first. It will be very helpful in dertermining if a risk of collision exists, afterall its name is RadioDirectionAndRange (RADAR). Also as other have said, some sort of course in using RADAR will be very helpful. I bet whatever brand you choose will have somme youtube video or DVD's to help you as well.

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by Kivalo

Also as other have said, some sort of course in using RADAR will be very helpful. I bet whatever brand you choose will have somme youtube video or DVD's to help you as well.

Good tip budget wise

[tkeithlu]

I use the Furuno wireless radar, after my wired 1715 got water in it in hurricane Michael (at the top of the radar mast!). I bought a refurbished iPad2 for minimum dollars to display it on the instrument panel. The only problem I've had was connecting, given a steel roof in the way. I solved that by determining that the antenna for the sender is mounted in the front of the shell. It was trying to transmit through an aluminum platform and my masthead nav light. I moved it forward on the platform, and now I have a radar considerably superior to my 1715. I miss some of the manual features of the 1715, but I'm seeing more, and clearly.

Sailing in SF without radar? Yes, we did it back in the 1960s, and we also had boats run over by freighters on the east coast of the US. AIS is great, I can call up a converging ship and tell them that I will divert, but radar, at a cost of less than $1,500 is cheap life insurance. If I was more limited than I am, I would have open CPN on a cheap laptop, radar, and a cheap fishfinder depth sounder. AIS, backup GPS, autopilot, all that comes next. VHF is a given.

[barnakiel]

Is it foggy where you sail?


Get a radar!


And what you hear about radars not able of this or that applied to old technology. Modern radars use a % of that energy and paint everything starting from a lateral stake marker (and one without a top radar reflector too!).


Look at the new radar technology. It is awesome. Furuno makes models that display directly to iPads too.


Just make sure you do need one.


Active (sending) AIS is great too. If you buy one, get the newer SOTDMA unit. Well worth the extra couple of bucks.


We sailed ages without radars, ais and gps. My opinion is that if you actually need something, go get it.


b.

[basssears]

I'd vote radar and AIS receiver, that's what you need to see and avoid things... transceiver makes assumption that someone who sees you will avoid you, that's a bad assumption. If you don't have a VHF just get one with built in AIS receiver, barely adds to the cost, can be tied in to plotter.

[Glassdog]

I second what Basseers said, I recently purchased the standard horizon GX 2200 I think, and over nema 0183 it integrate seamlessly with my Garmin chart plotter is an AIS receiver only and also has standalone GPS capabilities so you have an ass receiver and a back up GPS all in one great radio unit. I got mine with a rebate and it only cost me about $225. Good luck

[ArmyDaveNY]

Definitely radar first. If you do choose to get a radar unit, consider how you will orient it, how it will be displayed, and whether or not you will use a display with a chart overlay.

Many orient their radar with the boat, but many professional captains orient the radar north. The reasoning for this is that when the oriented with the boat, every time the vessel turns, the targets move. Either way will work if you are aware of this and make appropriate adjustments.

Many people have a separate display for the radar. This, like the separate depth finder, allows you a quick look to maintain situational awareness, without the need to spend time getting to the MFD to toggle between screens. Is not necessary, but a very good thing to do.

Some people find that using a chart overlay with the radar display can cause information overload. It is easier for targets to get lost with all of the data. Others like using the chart overlay to provide a reference. Either way works if you are aware of the limitations of each method. Use what is comfortable for you but be aware of potential issues with each.

There are no right or wrong answers on how to use it, so long as you are aware of, and capable of using, whatever you choose.

Keep in mind too that for thousands of years, no one used radar or AIS. Both are useful but not absolutely necessary.

Good luck.

[Dave22q]

Number one is to maintain a sharp lookout. Joining the chorus, radar over AIS every time. Going AIS, receiver is good, transmitter not so much. The latter is asking others to maintain watch. Collision avoidance is always your primary job.

[roland stockham]

Second all the advice about radar first but not all radars are born equal! The bigger the array the more detail you get. Also more power will punch through fog and rain better. Ideally 4kw with an 24inch array.
Second point is that for effective collision avoidence stabilization is very useful. That means the radar has a heading senson connected and can display "course up" not just heading up. All sail boats swing around ther course a bit and the effect is that the blobs you are trying to track also swing around so how can you establish their true course? You can but its difficult and takes time. With stabilisation it is quicker and easier.
Try going to somewhere that spplies the local fishing fleet and look at the prices for small commercial units. They are often far better and cheaper than the pleasure craft ones but they do look more industrial