Seen various people say to never use a phone/tablet for navigation. Why?

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Duxa

Hey all,

I am early in the sailing journey, just finishing up ASA 101 and plan to charter a bunch of boats before buying my own (and take at least ASA 103, and probably 104 before then).

I installed OpenCPN (not a fan), and also got Navionics app for phone/tablet (am a fan).

Seeing how Id be sailing a bunch of different boats through the charter, and on the cheap low end Catalina 30's from mid 80's they dont even have nav equipment (or its non functioning). What should I use for nav?

Why are tablet/phone charts not trusted? Is it an issue with trusting the hardware to not fail in a marine environment? If so, then how can a laptop or Rpi be trusted? Those are definitely not IP6X like modern phones/tablets.

I am generally good as far as locating myself on a paper map, but having a GPS overlay update every second seems like it is always a better option (even if using a cheap Chinese tablet with poor GPS chip). Especially in an ocean with no landmarks.

So I am curious as to why people say to never use a phone/tablet for navigation. To me, as someone new to sailing it sounds alien, almost like someone telling me to never use my phone to navigate roads (driving directions).

40 years ago, when chart plotters came out, did ole sailors say not to trust a computer and use paper charts instead? If electrical fails you are screwed! Which is true for phones/tablets as well (once the battery runs out), but I think chart plotters are generally considered a trusted source for charting these days?

Of course having redundancy is very important, but this almost solves itself, unless you are single handing, everyone has a phone. Some have a phone AND a tablet. And even if single handing the low barrier of $50 for an Android device allows you to throw an extra one in a Pelican case with some silica in case you need it.

Looking forward to the discussion. Thanks!

The answer is to go with whatever makes you feel comfortable.

I started teaching myself to sail in 1979 on San Francisco and San Pablo Bays without any electronic device and felt comfortable doing so. After my first sail on Puget Sound getting caught in the fog I asked Santa for a GPS and he came through with a Garmin 45...I was sold. I still use a portable Garmin at the helm today but I do all route planning on my laptop and transfer the route via USB. Route planning on a 15" laptop is ever so much better than picking coordinates off a paper charts that had to be done years ago.

If you just sail local waters then almost anything will do. Once you venture through waters you have never or rarely travel then GPS of whatever source is strongly advised but it must be reliable. I don't have a need for an expensive chartplotter when I can get by with a portable GPS and laptop for planning. Why should I bother using my cellphone for navigation when I have suitable marine navigation equipment available that has taken me to Hawaii and the back waters of British Columbia and Alaska on many occasions? I'm comfortable with my setup whatever the destination.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[Mithril Bham]

Yes. They used to say not to trust any electronics. Charts only. My first chart was a placemat from the local restaurant showing the San Juan Islands and a tide table. You could figure out currents with the tide table. Flood North, Ebb South in the San Juans. Important when you didn't have a motor.

It worked but wouldn't recommend it.
Never had a problem with phone or tablet so far. I'm sure I will. Chartplotters fail as well.

[Marathon1150]

Like many others have noted, redundancy and second "opinions" are a good idea. We have paper charts, a chartplotter with C-Map, an iPad and iPhone with iNavx/Navionics charts, a Toughbook laptop with C-Map and CM93 charts and several hand held GPS units, along with an AIS transponder.

We crossed from Mexico to French Poynesia and primarily used the iPad. Initially we had it mounted on the binnacle but ultimately chose to keep it below. It is in a Lifeproof water resistant housing but as others have noted, the USB cable is potentially vulnerable to water ingress.

Having the iPad at the inside nav station meant that we had to go and look at it every 15 minutes which gave us a reason to move around, going up and down the companion way stairs and was a good thing. The boat was being steered by a Hydrovane for all but about 20 hours (we motored for that much time during a 29 day crossing when on a few days we completely ran out of wind). Just sitting in the cockpit is not good for the body on a 4 hour watch.

I would not want to putter around in the Tuamotus with just paper charts. Three different sets of electronic charts on three different devices plus the ability to overlay Google earth images of tricky entrances is invaluable there and in many other places.

So bottom line - an iPad works very well in the right conditions. Paper charts and a compass remain useful but electronic navigation, as long as it is working, is significantly more accurate. A chartplotter with radar overlay is also a very useful navigational tool.

[foojin]

We have a Garmin chartplotter that is only a few years old. We also have an iPad with Navionics. The iPad blows the Garmin out of the water, though the Garmin makes a good backup if we ever need it.

[Don C L]

Since I grew up with all the ancient tools and tricks of ded reckoning around here, my phone is sinfully easy and way more informative and accurate than I ever was!
I still have my paper charts under the bunks, but I sure miss my old RDF!

[goboatingnow]

Looking around my marina most boats have marine MFDs so it’s heyday isn’t passed

Mine shows charts , ais and radar overlays , I haven’t found an easy replacement for this on an iPad.

The main issue for me is in the direct sun my tablets are unreadable and my iPhone switches off due to over heating

Almost every sailor I know has some form of smartphone /tablet charts display as a backup anyway.

[bergius]

I ran into this article where Andy Schell from 59 North (an offshore sailing school) talks about their setup:

When my wife, Mia, and I first crossed the Atlantic on our Allied Seawind 36, Arcturus, in 2011, we used the same handheld GPS that my parents had aboard their Bristol 38, Sojourner, in 1993 when we spent the winter in the Bahamas when I was only nine. We’ve never owned a fixed chartplotter.

On Isbjörn, our S&S Swan 48, we’re no luddites, but we emphasize efficiency, simplicity and presence of mind in how we outfit her. Which is why we now choose to navigate via a dual iPad setup—a large, semi-fixed iPad at the nav station below and a smaller, “portable” iPad, running the same software, that we can bring up to the cockpit.

To give some context here, we’re offshore most of the time on Isbjorn. In 2017 alone we spent 137 days at sea, covering over 10,000 miles. Offshore, you don’t need a chartplotter, save for the AIS data, and that only really in poor visibility or when a ship is in sight. We plot a position on our paper passage chart once or twice a day and log the GPS position, DR plot, etc. every four hours at the watch change in the hardcopy logbook.

https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...ting-by-tablet

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by bergius

I ran into this article where Andy Schell from 59 North (an offshore sailing school) talks about their setup:







https://www.sailmagazine.com/cruisin...ting-by-tablet

It’s one way of doing it I suppose. There are many , none are absolutely right.

[AndyinAbudhabi]

Sailed from Hong Kong to Abu Dhabi using navionics on chartplotter and 2 iPads. Didn’t hit anything and got to where I wanted to go…

[MatthLE]

To say much of anything would rehash previous posts EXCEPT, when you think of backups which are absolutely necessary, you must realize while cruising it is not that you will have a source of electricity for charging. All electronics will at some point in time frazzle. Roll the dice enough times and you will get snake eyes.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by capn_billl

Another problem not mentioned yet, is most phone/tablet built in GPS rely on constant 4G connection to download, and maintain maps.

Sail out of the square with a poor internet connection, and suddenly you are staring at a blank screen.

Actually if you have downloaded something like OpenCPN you do not need an internet connection after it is downloaded.

As long as you have a GPS input you are fine.

I use a RPi though or laptop without the internet most times connected not my phone so far

[rwidman]

My experience:

The tablet's screen is unreadable in direct sunlight.

The tablet will actually shut itself down if it gets too hot.

To me, these are both "fatal flaws" and make the tablet unsuitable for navigating a boat.

Let's add that it's difficult to connect a depth sounder, AIS or radar to a tablet.

Navionics has some quirks itself. It's impossible to keep it in the "track up" orientation even if you set it to that orientation. Zooming or other operations make it revert to north up and it takes several steps to get it back to how you set it.

My Garmin plotter is a reliable navigation instrument and my primary navigation instrument.

The tablet and Navionics is a toy.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by rwidman

My experience:

The tablet's screen is unreadable in direct sunlight.

The tablet will actually shut itself down if it gets too hot.

To me, these are both "fatal flaws" and make the tablet unsuitable for navigating a boat.

Let's add that it's difficult to connect a depth sounder, AIS or radar to a tablet.

Navionics has some quirks itself. It's impossible to keep it in the "track up" orientation even if you set it to that orientation. Zooming or other operations make it revert to north up and it takes several steps to get it back to how you set it.

My Garmin plotter is a reliable navigation instrument and my primary navigation instrument.

The tablet and Navionics is a toy.

You can always go below and look at your display out of the sun.

Not sure why some think they need a constant update on their exact position. Think about all those in the past with just a sextant and charts.

When you are in close enough use visual indicators of position display to be visable if you think you need it.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by rwidman

The tablet's screen is unreadable in direct sunlight.

The tablet will actually shut itself down if it gets too hot.

And impossible to read with polarized lenses. It's absolutely possible to use a portable device. If all I had was an iPad I would think it was great. When I look at the iPad right beside my MFD it is night and day (the iPad looks like 'night').

The iPad is for redundancy. In fog, I'll throw the radar on full screen on the MFD and use the iPad for GPS. Mot often the iPad is set-up so I can see overall progress between Point A & B, while the MFD is dialed in closer to see markers and other chart details.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Shrew

And impossible to read with polarized lenses.

Try rotating it? Ideally your glasses and electronics are built with polarization that will play well together, but cheaper models might not. For example, I just now checked a couple of Macbook screens and both were visible in the normal orientation. However, a 3rd party external monitor was polarized at a 45° angle which made it rather unusable.