The Earth is flat!

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by Benz

While the ones I've spoken to (flat-earthers) are both literate, intelligent and logical . . . . .

If ever I wanted a definition of the word “oxymoron”, there it is right there.

Oh, and is it even possible to be “both” of three things? In a flat-earth world, probably.

[Thumbs Up]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sigh... say it with me folks: Science is NOT a thing. It's not a group, a person or a cabal. Science is a process.



NO! "Trust the science" is like saying trust logic. Trust facts. Trust verifiable evidence.

But the great thing is, you don't have to trust anything. Scientific activities are open to everyone willing to put the effort in. If you don't trust what the expert is telling you, then go become an expert and look into it yourself.

Obviously we all can't be experts in everything. But we can all be critical thinkers about sources and reliability. This is what appears to be lacking, and diminishing, in today's culture of faux wiki-expertise.

Yes science is a process. But BIG SCIENCE is most definitely a thing (not in the physical sense but like politics or religion is a thing. A convention, or agreement. Is BIG SCIENCE not influenced by military industrial complex (or whatever you want to call it)? Not set up by and funded by Rockefeller type organizations? BIG OIL? BIG PHARMA? Before you answer you ought to check your history. It is a group, or a cabal or something like it. You think that if you were a scientist who made some shocking but controversial discovery that a well known peer reviewed journal would publish it? That it wouldn't be actively suppressed? It would take a big leap of faith for me to believe that (because I know it is not true). Critical thinking about sources and reliability? That is tough if a lot of our information has been skewed from the start for generations. We as a society have pretty much been programmed to think and act a certain way. Just because the Earth isn't flat doesn't mean that we should lump anyone who is critical of an established view into the same crowd as flat earthers. Established by who? Not when the ruling establishment is suspect. I am all for critical thinking. Really critical thinking. Sure, you can trust science (the process). Can you trust BIG SCIENCE?....... Then why do we?

[Martkimwat]

Originally Posted by NaClyDog

There are already enough things to argue about in the world, facts shouldn't be one of them. Waste of time and effort.


Now part of me wants to know how they explain gravity but it's best if I don't know.



If that makes me harsh then ya, I'm harsh. ;-)


Cheers.

Didn't you know? the Earth sucks! I would love to know how these odd folk explain the curvature of the earth as observed from a high flying airliner. ( It is very noticeable up at 43,000 feet back when I was commercial Jet Captain, even more noticeable in Concorde back in the day)

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by hamburking

I was crew crossing the Atlantic from the canaries to the Caribbean. The skipper/owner was aboard. We headed south from the canaries to avoid a large low and found ourselves around 16 degrees north. Our destination in the Caribbean was also around 16 degrees north. So the skipper said...simple...just set a course of 270 degrees...straight west, 2000 miles. But I wanted to head 290 degrees, somewhat north of west. He said I was crazy...that's the wrong direction!!!

The situation was aggravated by the fact that he had a degree in mathematics from a highly reputable university.

I'm sure those here can appreciate, he wanted to take the flat earth route, and I wanted to take the great circle...because, you know, the earth being round and all. Funny as it may seem now, he was quite serious, and we debated this for several days. With no internet and no reference books, I was not able to convince him the earth was round....but the GPS (all 6 we had aboard) agreed with me. This completely befuddled him.

Very easy way to show him without resorting to any forms of higher math. Get a globe or if on a boat any ball or sphere will work. Draw an equator line and a few random parallels of latitude north and south of the equator. Put two dots on one of the parallels then stretch a piece of string between the two points. It will naturally assume the shortest distance between the two points which will not be on the parallel but the great circle route. The one exception will be two points exactly on the equator. The difference becomes greater the farther you get from the equator.

[Ericson38]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Very easy way to show him without resorting to any forms of higher math. Get a globe or if on a boat any ball or sphere will work. Draw an equator line and a few random parallels of latitude north and south of the equator. Put two dots on one of the parallels then stretch a piece of string between the two points. It will naturally assume the shortest distance between the two points which will not be on the parallel but the great circle route. The one exception will be two points exactly on the equator. The difference becomes greater the farther you get from the equator.

He will hand you a flat plate, don't go for the globe. Ask how thick it is, and if anyone lives on the other side, stuff like that. Square edges or rounded, ocean or mountains on the edges. Anyone been to the edge. How far across is the flat plate ? Any picture or reports ?

Ask if sun and moon are also flat plates. Then ask why the earth casts a round shadow on the moon. Then ask why there are time zones. If time zones are fake, ask him to call a friend 2000 miles east or west of where he is at his sunrise or sunset and ask what they see. Flat plate.....all see the same rise and set at the same time.

Don't tell him that Columbus had to argue the circumference for years with King Ferdinand and Queen Isablla before he got his 3 ships.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Very easy way to show him without resorting to any forms of higher math. Get a globe or if on a boat any ball or sphere will work. Draw an equator line and a few random parallels of latitude north and south of the equator. Put two dots on one of the parallels then stretch a piece of string between the two points. It will naturally assume the shortest distance between the two points which will not be on the parallel but the great circle route. The one exception will be two points exactly on the equator. The difference becomes greater the farther you get from the equator.

A great explanation most anyone can understand.

[RaymondR]

What's wrong with you people. The earths not flat plate it's cylindrical and consequently curved one way and flat the other so what you see depends in which way you are facing. It's perfectly logical and anyone can see it.

[Manateeman]

The earth is flat. Therefore, like my iPad which contains all human knowledge, it’s got to have four edges and logically, four directions.
The North edge is for Polar Bears to push the “I don’t believe in global warming”
people over the edge. Plop.
The South edge is for Sperm Whales to push the “Covid is a hoax “ folks over.
You know who... is included and he should change his name to Ahab.
The East edge is for Orcas to push over all the “Ken, Barbie and their stupid cat” sail boat bloggers as it will be their best and final blog.

The West edge is the best edge. Over first go the sports fishing guys who run full out in creeks. Next, strings of jet skis, carbon fiber Catamarans, Miami Vice boats, all J boats and any sailor wearing pink Nantucket shorts with little embroidered whales on them. Lastly. after being off gassed, paddled and covered with fresh biscuits (flops), goes anyone calling manatees sea c— ws.

The next keel to fall off will be met with a barrage of empty beer bottles and moldy calzones. Any sailor kissing us, thinking we are mermaids, will be infected with blue crabs not crabs that give them the blues.
I’m no longer the attorney for the Manatee Outlaws club.
Happy trails to the survivors.
Captain “Abandon Ship” Mark and the “Anarchy Posse “manatees

[Thumbs Up]

How are you supposed to navigate from the poles? If you are on the north pole, the great circle route to any destination on earth is to head due south right?

[Dsanduril]

Covid-19 has given this thread legs. I was trying to come up with some flat earth science when I came across this little nugget:

Simplifying somewhat (well, actually, a lot!), in order to address requirements for greater precision, the ITRS was developed to give greater accuracy than WGS84, with ‘epoch’-dependant ITRF ‘realisations’, where the latitude/longitude coordinate of a position will vary over time.
Source

Now my entire world view is in question, I may have to start seriously considering the flat earth thing

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

Yes science is a process. But BIG SCIENCE is most definitely a thing (not in the physical sense but like politics or religion is a thing. A convention, or agreement. Is BIG SCIENCE not influenced by military industrial complex (or whatever you want to call it)? Not set up by and funded by Rockefeller type organizations? BIG OIL? BIG PHARMA? Before you answer you ought to check your history. It is a group, or a cabal or something like it. You think that if you were a scientist who made some shocking but controversial discovery that a well known peer reviewed journal would publish it? That it wouldn't be actively suppressed? It would take a big leap of faith for me to believe that (because I know it is not true). Critical thinking about sources and reliability? That is tough if a lot of our information has been skewed from the start for generations. We as a society have pretty much been programmed to think and act a certain way. Just because the Earth isn't flat doesn't mean that we should lump anyone who is critical of an established view into the same crowd as flat earthers. Established by who? Not when the ruling establishment is suspect. I am all for critical thinking. Really critical thinking. Sure, you can trust science (the process). Can you trust BIG SCIENCE?....... Then why do we?

Point to "BIG SCIENCE." Name them. Where is the secret hideout .


This is paranoia run rampant. Of course science can serve powerful interests. Again, it's a process; a tool. That's like saying BIG HAMMER is behind all the construction scams. It's a tool.

[Thumbs Up]

"Point to "BIG SCIENCE." Name them. Where is the secret hideout"
They are hiding in published peer reviewed studies published in science journals and sponsored by the big chemical and pharmaceutical companies! You know who they are. I can make a list if you really want me to.
These are the same three links that I posted earlier. Read them!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472724/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5959187/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4572812/

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Or, if you prefer. In flat earth dogma, there is no south pole; which is why compasses always point north.

I'm not kidding.

Speak for yourself - around here the compasses always point south.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Thumbs Up

"Point to "BIG SCIENCE." Name them. Where is the secret hideout"
They are hiding in published peer reviewed studies published in science journals and sponsored by the big chemical and pharmaceutical companies! You know who they are. I can make a list if you really want me to.
These are the same three links that I posted earlier. Read them!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1472724/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5959187/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4572812/

You really need to get out into the real world more often. This is not "BIG SCIENCE." These articles are pointing to very real problems in the way some science is done and reported, especially when big money gets involved. It's also evidence of the self-correcting nature of science, which is a key factor in the way real science actually works.


You're point to a very real problem, but you're missing the mark on who to blame, or where the real causes are.

[garyfdl]

That's one of the nice things about sailing the Great Lakes, you can't fall off the edge...